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From: "Hayes, Dann" <>
Subject: Re: [SUVCW] 80 Acres of Hell
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:57:52 -0400
In-Reply-To: <002301c890ce$7fabb000$0200a8c0@admin8319b6b33>


Gentlemen,

I have done quite a bit of research into the prison camps of both sides - I have ancestors on both sides who were in prison camps (Union, Camp Sumter/Andersonville and Confederate, Camp Douglas/Chicago and Elmira, New York).

I agree 100 percent that both sides had atrocities when it came to keeping the prisoners. The powers to be had no idea what they were getting into and, like most everything else about the war, they were not prepared for what they got.

However, in my opinion, the atrocities that occurred at Camp Douglas were not caused by ignorance and neglect. There was starvation and torture in Chicago, among other things. You know it is bad when a Union unit stationed at Camp Douglas actually tried to burn the place down.

Most prisons on both sides were built in very bad locations.

In my humble opinion, there is enough blame to go around on both sides.

I urge everyone to do additional research on the subject. There are a number of excellent books you should read.

-- "To Die in Chicago: Confederate Prisoners at Camp Douglas 1862-1865," by George Levy (Pelican Publishing Company) -- ISBN # -- 1-5655-43319
-- "The Dixie Died: Southern Occupation 1865-1866," by Thomas and Debra Goodrich (Stackpole Books), ISBN # 9-8117-0487-4
-- "Unlikely Allies: Fort Delaware's Prison Community in the Civil War," By Dale Fetzer and Bruce Mowday (Stackpole Books), ISBN number 0-8117-18-239

These books are very well documented and excellent reading. Will give everyone some insight into the problems with keeping prisoners.

As always, I am always looking for additional reading material. If anyone has some, please let me know.

I know of one other book that covers both sides, but I can't locate the name. I'll pass it on when I find it.

Dann Hayes
Commander
Sgt. N.F. Bates Camp No. 64
Department of Iowa




On 3/28/08 7:23 AM, "gdy2shosflthybst" <> wrote:

We don't have to put the North in a virtuous light. Its already there by
virtue of having crushed an isidious rebellion.

We in the SUVCW do have a duty to stop confederate revisionism. Grant NEVER
owned any slaves. His falther in law loaned him one for a time before the
war.

Wirz deserved to swing because unlike Camp Douglas that was caused by
ignorance and neglect, Camp Sumter ( Andersonville) was caused by deliberate
abuse.

I am not condoning what went on in some Federal prison camps. The Officers
in charge there were probably guilty of dereliction of duty.

Several confederate officers also testified against Wirz. The court decided
that these were among the most compelling witnesses. One witness, who said
that he saw Wirz kick a man to death, was not impeached. That charge alone
was enough to hang Wirz.

Grant was very lenient to confederate prisoners as all who read about
Appomattox know. He certainly was no criminal.

It is also a lie that this war was a war of North vs. South. That image is
perpetrated to further divide a nation and to recruit Southerners under the
ridiculous notion that the confederacy is somehow part of their heritage
even if they have no relatives who fought in the rebel Army. Its' and
attempt to squash the idea that this was a rebellion against the Federal
Government and that the "Southern People" were throwing off oppression. The
200,000 plus Southern Patriots who fought for the Union knew that tere
homeland was not being invaded, that they were not being oppressed, and that
the rebellion was an effort by wealthy Southern leaders to desperately hold
onto their wealth " black slaves" at the expense of their fellow
Southerners.

Eric Peterson
Comander, Elias Moon Camp #2

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: [SUVCW] 80 Acres of Hell


>
> God bless you Sir. You have my permission to do so, and I encourage you
> to
> visit my web site where you can also post anything that you find there.
> (_www.southernheritage411.com_ (http://www.southernheritage411.com/) ) HK
>
>
> From: HK Edgerton [mailto:. HK Ed
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:10 AM
> Subject: God Bless the History/ / www.southernheritag God
> Bless
> the History/ / www.sout
>
>
>
>
> Yesterday, March 25th, 2008, the History Channel aired a series on Camp
> Douglas, the 80 acres of Hell, and also Camp Andersonville. For those who
> always
> ask the question about why we in the South continue to fight a war that
> has
> long since passed; they should not have missed this series. I am somewhat
> surprised and absolutely proud of the History Channels almost complete
> exoneration of Major Henry Wirz. Major Wirz was the only Confederate
> official to have
> been tried and hanged for his complicity in the War Between the States,
> and
> his refusal to accept a deal that would have put the Honorable Jefferson
> Davis
> and General Robert E. Lee in the Yankee hands who conducted the shameful
> military tribunal that took his life, also speak volumes for his
> impeccable
> character.
>
> Even the staunchest supporters of the Union would have finally been
> exposed
> to the true criminality of those like U. Grant that clearly exposed his
> complicity in the tragic circumstances that caused the deaths of his own
> men at
> Andersonville. Grant and Union General Hooker knew very well about the
> perjury
> of their witnesses against Major Wirz, to include the one who gave the
> most
> damning testimony against Wirz; he wasn't even at Andersonville. Grant
> who
> responded when asked why he had not set free his slaves after the war,
> responded, that good help was hard to find, and then he took his station
> as the
> President of the United States. If anybody should have been put on trial
> for war
> crimes, it should have been Colonel Sweet, the Commandant of Camp
> Douglas,
> William T. Sherman and a host of others including Grant that I would
> surely get
> into deep trouble for calling out their names. For those who always claim
> that there were no Black Confederates, the History Channel clearly
> showed the
> pictures of how they were immediately shot and left in pools of their
> blood
> why rats ate them as they lie dead or dying at Camp Douglas.
>
>
>
> The History Channel clearly pointed out how the Industrial Revolution of
> the
> 1850's could easily have led to the end of slavery, instead the greed of
> Northern industrialist squandered away an opportunity that would have
> saved the
> life of over 600,000 of this nations citizens primarily for the
> production
> of military weapons against the people of the South for Lincoln's
> unconstitutional war.
>
>
> Even those citizens of Lincoln's Illinois can find reasons to be troubled
> as
> the revelation of how the people of Chicago faced the same tyranny on
> November 6, 1864 when Colonel Sweet claimed that many of them were
> conspiring to
> rescue the Confederate soldiers from the inhumane conditions of Camp
> Douglas.
> Lincoln had already suspended the writ of habeas corpus, so Sweet
> suffered no
> consequences in his actions of arresting over 200 citizens of that city,
> many
> who were very prominent, which included a one Buckner Morris and his wife
> who was banished to Kentucky.
>
>
>
> It is no surprise that those who want to put the North in a virtuous
> historical perspective during this epoch, want to rid the national scene
> of our
> glorious Southern banner and culture. For if the true story is told, not
> only
> will there be bills to paid, but there will be some very angry citizens
> on both
> sides of the Mason Dixon, Red, Yellow, Black and White, who will finally
> understand that the South was right for her stand against greed and the
> criminal
> circumventing of the Constitution ; one that continues to this very day.
> This nation should be proud that a people had the courage to stand up
> against
> insurmountable odds that has unfairly left them in a perpetual historical
> lie
> that keep us in a unholy divide.
> John A. O'Neal, Pomeranian American
> Other than slavery, nazism, fascism and George III, war has never solved
> any
> problems.
> _O'Neal and Others Family History Page_
> (http://hometown.aol.com/jaoarm/myhomepage/heritage.html)
>
>
>
> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
> Home.
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15=aolhom00030000000001 <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001><http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001>; )
> The Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War (SUVCW) list received the
> blessing of National in July 2007. It was established in January 2007 to
> assist in disseminating information and seeking assistance to members,
> associates, and potential members who have an interest in the SUVCW, GAR,
> the people and events of the period of the War Between the States.
>
> The opinions expressed and information provided in messages are those of
> individuals and are not necessarily the official opinions, views or
> beliefs of any Camp, Department or National SUVCW.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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The Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War (SUVCW) list received the blessing of National in July 2007. It was established in January 2007 to assist in disseminating information and seeking assistance to members, associates, and potential members who have an interest in the SUVCW, GAR, the people and events of the period of the War Between the States.

The opinions expressed and information provided in messages are those of individuals and are not necessarily the official opinions, views or beliefs of any Camp, Department or National SUVCW.
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