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From: "Barbara Prowse" <>
Subject: Re: [ZA] Christmas Greetings
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:47:59 -0000
References: <BA1781D1.26CB%jacaster@iinet.net.au>


Dear Judy
I was entranced by your story. But I agree with what you say about the older
generations' attitudes. I've found it so in my own and extended family
several times. I started my family tree research with my mother's family. To
her joy I obtained my mother's full birth certificate, which she'd never
had, being a middle child of a poor London family. However, she was not so
pleased when I discovered that her mother, whom she'd always revered next to
God, was pregnant when she got married. "But she was a good woman" said my
Mum. "That doesn't make her bad" I answered, "but I can't answer for your
Dad!" I discovered that many of my ancestresses, particularly on my mother's
side, had been pregnant when they got married, and some didn't even have a
father named on the birth cert!! One even lived in what looked, form the
Census, like the red-light district of Boston, Lincs. It just made me laugh.
But perhaps I should not have brought these facts to my mother's attention,
as it upset her.

On my daughter-in-law's grandfather's death the family discovered he had
been born to a completely different mother from the Granny they's always
thought of as his. the story goes [as it so often does] that she was an
Irish girl working in a grand London hotel, made pregnant by the owner, on
his visit from the USA. She placed the baby with the other couple and then
went back to Ireland. Half of the very large family George had refuse to
contemplate any other grandparents. The oldest ones, who know more than
anyone, refuse to talk about it. Unfortunately I have now got the birth
cert. The Mum, though single, was born and brought up in London, as was her
father before her, and is more likely to be Scottish than Irish, from her
name. There is no rich man in the background, so far as we can see. My
daughter-in-law and her mother are interested in what I find out, because
George's Mum is their blood, though the other couple will never be less than
their "real grandparents". And of course nurture is a strong element in our
development. It looks to me as if the couple who adopted George were married
quite young, and after 9 years of marriage were childless. I'm still trying
to find out what connection there might be between the two families. It also
looks as if George's natural grandmother died when his mother was quite
young. So there's a sad story there, yet also good. There's also the
possibility from what they've been told, that George's Mum looked for him
later. Someone did.

Incidentally, when my paternal grandmother died, in her 90s, we saw an old
lady at the funeral who was her spitting image. All my brothers commented on
it. I know my great grandfather had a long-term lady friend, and we all
wondered whether this old lady was his daughter. I have never stopped
regretting that I didn't ask her her mother's name. I wouldn't have worried
if she had been my Gran's sister. She would have been our blood! Mind you, I
don't know what she would have thought about it!!

Best wishes
Barbara




----- Original Message -----
From: "jacaster" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ZA] Christmas Greetings


> Dear List,
>
> I totally agree with Pat's sentiments. This List has given me such a
great
> year for all the same reasons. May I tell you my story?
>
> Once upon a time, when I was a child, my English grandmother told me about
> her father who she said was an 'artist' and who had gone to Africa and
never
> returned. I married, Grandma died and my family flew the nest. In the
> past few years, genealogy has been at the edges of my interest and I have
> half-heartedly thought of G.Grandfather in Africa. With retirement last
> year, I resolved to do the job properly and started by sending away for
> certificates.
>
> To my surprise, Grandma's marriage certificate in 1918 stated that her
> father's occupation was 'photographers assistant' and that he was
deceased!
> Now, I clearly remembered that she had told me that when she passed
through
> Cape Town on the troop ship enroute to Australia, soon after her marriage,
> she had met her father and had never heard from him again. This fired my
> fertile imagination and being a member of the Sherlock Holmes Society, I
> realised that there was a mystery afoot!
>
> After posting G.G.'s name on various Internet sites, up came a notice from
> Cape Town Archives which stated that he was charged with Culpable Homicide
> in 1938 - 'Whoopee!!!' I sent away and eventually received the
transcript
> of his trial - 80+pages in faded shorthand!! Great disappointment as I
was
> unable to find anyone who could tackle the job of transcription. All the
> answers were in that bundle of paper and I was unable to access them.
>
> Then I found this List! I was soon directed to Cape Town NAAIRS and
found
> GG's deathnotice in 1934. The 'murderer' was his son bearing the same
name.
> There was also a death notice for his wife and information about another
> son. Great excitement!
>
> Not long afterwards, I commenced corresponding by email with SKS from Cape
> Town who offered to help. The name of the youngest son was found in the
> White Pages. My new friend offered to telephone. I knew that he must
be
> very old but hoped that perhaps it was his son at this address, so I paved
> the way by writing with my request for information. Nothing. I wrote
> again, with no response. My SKS made the telephone call. It was the
widow
> of the son, a very deaf and cranky old lady in her nineties. She was
> shocked with the disclosure about her father in law and did not want to
have
> anything to do with me.
>
> I sent a nice card with a letter of apology and included, in big black
> letters, my email address. I hoped that she might show it to someone and
> they would make contact. Sure enough, she showed it to her nephew and
> swore him to secrecy, not to tell the rest of her family. He memorised
the
> address, wrote it down as soon as he got into his car and emailed me the
> minute he arrived home! He was fascinated and wanted to know the whole
> story.
>
> In the meantime, I had mentioned to my SKS that I was travelling to the UK
> and, "For two pins I would stop off in Cape Town." He replied that he
and
> his family would be happy for me to stay with them and why not come? That
> did it! No thought that I was accepting an invitation from a strange
man,
> in a foreign country, met through the internet. I was off to the travel
> agent to book my ticket! My husband knows that I can look after myself
and
> did not object.
>
> The hospitality was warm and the help invaluable. A search of the
> newspapers at the time of the homicide found that it was a car accident
> where a passenger was killed - and the son was acquitted. My friend even
> drove me to Castle Bridge to see the spot where it all occurred! I stood
at
> the grave of my GG Grandfather, his wife and his eldest son and also drove
> down Long St. where GGG had been licensee of a hotel. A lovely day was
> spent with the nephew and he promised that when Auntie died, he would see
> that any documents pertaining to the family would come to me, as neither
> brother had any children.
>
> To my horror, I received an email from him a week or so later to say that
> Auntie had died. My daughter in the UK said that my revelations had
> probably killed her! She was very old and unwell but it did make me stop
> and think that although we are mostly unfazed about any family scandals,
the
> older generation do not share our worldly composure. We do have to tread
> carefully and be sensitive to their reactions.
>
> I am now (patiently?) waiting for the promised papers and, hopefully, a
> photograph of my great grandfather. After that, my research and contact
in
> S-Africa will be finished. But can I bear to leave this List? The
warmth
> and caring attitude of regulars is wonderful and makes my day. Keep it up
> and to everyone, have a very special Christmas. You are indeed, very
> special people.
>
> Judy...........Perth. W.Australia
>
>
>
> on 5/12/02 6:43 AM, Doug & Pat Frykberg at wrote:
>
> > Best wishes to all on the list. It has been a good year, with warmth,
> > helpfulness, generosity and good humour from all
> > It's the best list.
> > Pat Frykberg
> >
> >
> > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA Mailing List ====
> > *****************************************************************
> > If you need a translation from Afrikaans into English please visit my
> > website at http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/words.html for a list of
> > volunteers who
> > are prepared to do translations for you.
> >
> >
>
>
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> related subject, as it applies to South and Southern
> Africa. Please do participate.
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