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From: Geza Varga <>
Subject: Re: [HUNGARY-L] The suffix yi in Hungarian names
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 02:42:06 +0200


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Bill,

Linguistically speaking, there is no such thing as a -yi suffix. The y is=20
always the second part of a two-character letter (ny, ty, gy - the palatal=
=20
n, t, d respectively; ly - the palatal l originally, now equivalent to the=
=20
English y sound, etc.), and the -i is the real suffix. However, in some=20
dialects words ending in -n plus the -i suffix results in the=20
palatalization of -n and thus in -nyi.

What regards semantics, the -i suffix refers indeed to origin (not only in=
=20
family names but also in "living" Hungarian language -- such as the -er=20
suffix in English but used much more widely), but does not indicate any=20
social rank. To make things a bit more complicated, it sometimes appears in=
=20
the form of a -y suffix (only in family names) which is said to be related=
=20
to a certain rank in the nobility, although there are lots of exceptions.=20
If the -y prefix is used with a word ending in -y, then the y is not=20
doubled (such as in the case of the first freely elected Hungarian prime=20
minister from 1848, Batthi=E1ny), although still pronounced as palatal n=
plus i.

In the case of Mr. G=E1rdonyi, the place name is G=E1rdony (a lovely site on=
=20
the Velencei lake).

Best wishes
Geza

At 01:15 2004.10.12.Tuesday, Bill Mako wrote:

>Dear List, The reason for my asking this question is that the great=20
>Hungarian author Geza Gardonyi changed his name and in reading one of his=
=20
>novels , I believe it stated that the yi signified from Gardon. I was=20
>wondering if this is similar to the prefix Von in German or Van in=20
>Dutch. It means of that city or town and signifies a person of royal=20
>connection. Sincerely Bill Mako

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