HUNGARY-L Archives

Archiver > HUNGARY > 2004-04 > 1081975781


From: "Janet Kozlay" <>
Subject: RE: [HUNGARY-L] anyone run into problems like this?
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:52:21 -0400
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c4224e$8d033e50$6401a8c0@Alicia>


I found your problem fascinating--not so much in terms of convincing your
relatives as much as why there are two similar but different family names.
Do your relatives in Hungary have any clues? Could they be two families
that might have intermarried? I have been told that it sometimes happened
that a husband might assume his wife's family name if hers had a higher
social position. We also know that it was not that uncommon for family
names to be changed.

The fact that the names Princz and Sprencz are so similar might be adding to
the confusion. What if the names were Smith and Jones, and some relatives
said their name was Smith and had always been Smith, and others said the
name was Jones and had always been Jones. Yet you have evidence that they
are the same family. What would you look for then?

I assume from what you wrote that you have done extensive research in the
records. If you have everything noted down for both Princz and Sprencz, it
is possible that you have the answer there. It might be a matter of being
able to see it.

To write from personal experience, I have just completed a massive job of
trying to verify my husband's great-grandfather's (Jeno) repeated assertion
that he was related to Lajos Kossuth. Over and over Jeno wrote that "my
mother is a Ruttkay and my grandmother is a Kossuth." That meant finding a
Ruttkay-Kossuth marriage in the right time period. Fortunately I knew the
village (Ruttka). I wrote down every instance of Ruttkays and Kossuths in
all the records, filling five notebooks with hundreds of names and dates.
(You can imagine how many Ruttkays there were in Ruttka!) I then
transcribed my notes and placed families together where I could confirm the
relationships. My first task was to find how the Kossuths in Ruttka were
related to Lajos Kossuth, and that was done with a little work. (Lajos
Kossuth's grandfather was the last one of his direct line to live in that
area, though that is where the family originated.) Then I needed to try to
find that marriage. Well, I did find the right Ruttkay grandfather, and
even found his marriage to Johanna Kossuth! Right on! I was so excited
that I had finally found it after a three-year hunt. But I was haunted by a
nagging feeling that something was not right. That marriage was far too
late. So I looked, and looked, and looked. After about three days of
poring over the information, I found the answer. WIDOWER Ruttkay married
Johanna Kossuth (ages 44 and 23, respectively). His first wife died leaving
two living children, who turned out to be Jeno's mother and uncle. Johanna
Kossuth was not his grandmother after all; she was his step-grandmother, and
apparently no one ever told him. If she had actually been Jeno's
grandmother, Lajos Kossuth would have been his cousin once removed.

It was a startling thought that on the basis of church records I was able to
learn something about a man who was born in 1826 that even he didn't know.
He would have been dreadfully disappointed. At the same time, it was a good
lesson on perseverance. Anne, you too may have the information at hand.

I wish you the best in sorting out the Princz/Sprencz problem. Let us know
if you are successful. That would make a great story. And even if your
relatives refuse to believe it, you will have the satisfaction of knowing
the truth.

Janet



This thread: