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Archiver > HUNGARY > 1998-12 > 0912907936


From: "Milan Huba" <>
Subject: Re: [HUNGARY-L] Florin, Gulden and Bavarians in Hungary
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:32:16 -0600


I finally get to comment on a subject that I know something about.

Over the centuries, Hungary had many different coin denominations:
DENAR AND OBOL: From the years 1000 to about 1300, the most common coin was
the denar. This was a paper thin silver coin which varied in size from
10mm. to 15mm. in diameter. There was a smaller 1/2 denar coin called an
obol. The obol was less common and it was anywhere between 5mm. to 8mm. in
diameter. These were hammered coins, each individually hand made, and tended
to be crude.
G0LDGULDEN and GROSCHEN: The Goldgulden first appeared after 1301 during
the reign of King Karl Robert. This was a very thin gold coin about 19 to
21mm in diameter. At the same time they minted a silver coin called the
Groschen which was anywhere between 21 and 24mm in diameter. The continued
to mint the denar and obol.
GULDEN (Silver) or GULDINER: This coin was introduced during the reign of
Wladislav II (1490-1516). This was a large silver coin almost the size of a
thaler (silver dollar). During the reign of Ferdinand I (1526-1564) a
same size silver coin was minted that was called a thaler.
KREUZER or KRAJCZAR: This tiny silver coin, 10 to 15mm. in diameter,
first appeared during the reign of Ferdinand III (1637-1657), Over the
years this coin evolved into a small copper coin. It was last minted in
1892 during the reign of Franz Jozef.
FLORINT (silver Gulden) A silver coin the same size the existing silver
gulden appeared and was called the Florint. Until 1857, 60 kreuzers equaled
1 Florint. After 1857 100 kreuzers equaled 1 Florint. 2 Florints equaled
a Thaler.
DUCATS (gold) first appeared during the reign of Leopold I (1657-1705).
Gold ducats came in a came in a number of denominations: 1 ducat, 3 ducats,
4 ducats, 5 ducats, 6 ducats, 8 ducats (no 7 or 9 ducats) and 10 ducats.
The 10 ducat coin was the size of a silver thaler (silver dollar) or the
size of a United States 20 dollar gold piece.
POLTURA was introduced during the reign of Franz II Rakoczi (1703-1711).
This coin was valued at 1 1/2 kreuzer or 2 polturas equaled 3 Kreuzers.
This was a revoluntary period during which Hungary attempted to break from
the Hapsburgs.
1892 MONETARY REFORM: 100 Fillers equal 1 Korona. A filler was a tiny
copper coin, about 10mm in diameter. The Korona was a silver coin about
23mm in diameter.

I would write more but I'm sure that this is boring to most people; but to
me, an old Hungarian coin is a part of my family history. This is the
coinage my ancestors used to conduct everyday business. When I examine an
old Hungarian coin, it could very well be a coin that one of my ancestors
used. So much for old coins. My fingers are getting tired so now I will
sign off.

Milan Huba

-----Original Message-----
From: Felix G. Game <>
To: <>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:29 PM
Subject: [HUNGARY-L] Florin, Gulden and Bavarians in Hungary

>Response to Tom's questions:
>
>>"Florin" was a monetary unit used in a number of countries:
> You are quite correct, but off the top of my head I could not provide a
>good list of all the countries involved. Since I work mostly Austria and
>Hungary, I do know that the currency colloquially called the "Gulden" was
>officially known as the Florin. I think the Netherland coin was a Guilder.
>
>>designation throughout the German Confederation? And when did the DM come
>into
>>use?
> If by DM you mean "Deutschmark", I think it was created after 1945. Before
>it was a Reichsmark, and before then it was quite confusing the farther
>back one went, and it requires in depth study to get a handle on it.
>
>>Also, I have not seen the book Shelley extracted the text from, so I do
not
>>know why the entries she cites would report a sum of money. Do you know
why
>>these amounts are reported?
> Even immigrants coming to North America were asked at the border how much
>money they had with them - probably for the authorities to see if the
>person could make it to his/her destination without assistance. There may
>have been some minimum amounts required for admission.
> In Europe during the period in question there was the other reason also,
>that the sovereign who was losing good, healthy citizens wanted to extract
>his pound of flesh. Emigrants were required by some jurisdictions to pay
>5-15% of their "wealth" in what amounts to a manumission fee before the
>emigrant was allowed to leave.
>
>>Beyond that, I was a bit confused by the fact that a post about Baden was
on
>>the Hungary list, so I was even less willing to commit to an answer. Was
the
>>Florin used in Hungary while it was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
>
> Don't be confused by that. Hungary was left practically de-populated after
>the Turks finally left, and the Habsburgs (Maria Theresia), large land
>holders (e.g. the Eszterházy, and various bishops) were actively recruiting
>colonists. Because of the Roman Catholic orientation of the House of
>Habsburg, their first choice were Germans from Catholic countries such as
>neighboring Austria, and Bavaria. Only later, when these places dried up,
>did the recruiters move up along the Rhine and the Danube to invited people
>from the Black Forest, Baden Württemberg, Elsaß Lothringen.
> It is impossible to pursue Hungarian families without running into Germans
>sooner than later.
>
><felix>
>
>
>
>

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