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From: patrick holland <>
Subject: Re: [WW1] late recognition for John Simpson Kirkpatrick
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:38:03 +0800
References: <001301c52361$3d28a180$2102a8c0@Belkin>
In-Reply-To: <001301c52361$3d28a180$2102a8c0@Belkin>


Bob,

I began my research into WW1 following the discovery that my grandfather
and five of his sons fought in the British Army in WW1. Later I discovered
that my dad's cousin and his father also both fought and died in WW1. I
also discovered that another distant cousin fought with the AIF 33rd Bn
Australian infantry in France in WW1 and won the DCM. Altogether, three of
these men were awarded the DCM and two of them , father and son gave their
lives. In WW2 another distant cousin from the UK was KIA while fighting
with the A.I.F. 2/16 Bn Australian Infantry on the Kokoda trail in PNG.

Living in Australia since 1965, it was inevitable that as a result of
watching with interest and pleasure may ANZAC day parades that I gradually
became more aware and interested in the Gallipoli campaign which is not
celebrated so much in Britain as it is in Australia.

It was with some dismay that I began to hear disparaging comments made by
some ( and believed by many more ) Australians about the alleged inferior
performance of the British troops at Gallipoli compared to the heroic
performance of the Diggers. Even Peter Weir, the Australian director of the
film, " Gallipoli " inserted a scene in his film which perpetuates the myth.

During my long time sojourn Downunder I ' ve got used to many Aussie
idiosyncrasies, harmless ones like calling someone with red hair, "
Bluey", less nice are ones are ones like, the cutting down tall poppies
syndrome. Even Pommie bashing is tolerable but when it becomes nasty and
turns its spite on the British soldiers who fought and died at Gallipoli
and then extends to those who fought and died on the battlefields of the
Western front in France and Flanders, I see red.

Perhaps if we look at a few facts about Gallipoli it will ( or should )
make some of those un informed Aussies, who without thinking perpetrate
these shameful ant-British soldier myths about Gallipoli, think again.

For example, I 've read recently that among the Australian troops at
Galliopoli, fifty per cent of them indicated that their next of kin lived
in the UK.

Then there 's your story about, John Simpson Kirkpatrick (1892-1915) who
enjoys a renown today as perhaps Australia's greatest war hero. He was in
fact a POM who was born in South Shields, England and first came to
Australia when he was aged 18.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/kirkpatrick.htm

I ' ve got lots more of this myth breaking material which I will gladly
supply but I think that I ' ve made my point. To me its the pits to
denigrate any men you fought and died alongside each other at Gallipoli ,or
elsewhere, just because they are POMs. They were all heroes and worthy of
respect.

I sympathise with the Aussies who blame their heavy losses at Gallipoli and
later in France on poor British military leadership. But don ' t forget,
that we Brits , who died in even larger numbers than you Aussies, also died
because of military incompetence and effete political leadership as did
many New Zealanders, New Foundlanders, Indians and Gurkhas at Gallipoli.

This web page usefully elaborates that point.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/gallipoli%20-%201915.htm

According to Slim, " ..... those who had been in command at the campaign
(were) the worst in the British Army since the Crimean War. "

As far as I am aware, its only the Aussies from among all those those
others whose countrymen fought and died at Gallipoli who openly sneer at
the performance of the British troops at Gallipoli as compared to the
alleged superior performance of the Diggers at Gallipoli and continue to do
so later on during bloody battles on the Western Front. That ' s an Aussie
idiosyncrasy, mate, which frankly I despise.

Incidently, I 've recently read in a detailed military analysis of the
Gallipoli campaign that it was generally agreed among the military leaders
at Gallipoli that among the troops from the Dominions, the New Zealanders
were generally considered to be the best because they combined in their
performance what was best in the performance of the British and the
Australian soldiers.

Finally, let me remind you about the Lancashire Fusiliers who won 7 VCs
before breakfast when they landed at W'" beach at Gallipoli. You can then
tell me, with justifiable pride, about the Diggers who won 6 VCs during
the massacre at the battle of Nek during the same campaign. Monash was
there. The Brits and the Diggers I ' ve just mentioned were all equally
outstanding heroes. Their different nationality was irrelevant.

" The Bulletin " a respected Australian publication, has recently published
an issue which includes an article in it entitled, " The myths of Gallipoli
" some of the article covers 5 major myths of the ANZAC landing including
the one about the Diggers being landed at the wrong place.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/site/articleIDs/B4C7A71E560D5239CA256E39002483E5

It' s understandably written with an Aussie bias but it is at least a
start which will hopefully eventuate in a re thinking about Gallipoli in
those Aussies of all generations who have grown up ill informed about what
really happened at Gallipoli.

I hope, Bob, you will not take offence at any of my comments. They were not
intended to offend anybody but no doubt they will. They were written in an
attempt to put things in perspective and as a proud POM to defend the
reputation and honour of all those British soldiers and sailors who fought
and died at Gallipoli .

I believe, all the men who fought and died at Gallipoli whether they came
from Britain or Australia or other places were heroes and none of them
should have their reputation and honour tarnished by any one eyed
individual Downunder in a misplaced spate of nationalistic fervour.

Regards.

Patrick.

Perth, Western Australia.



At 06:01 AM 3/8/05, you wrote:
>I was very interested in the story about Private Henry Tandey Britain's
>highest decorated WW1 soldier and his possible encounter with Corporal
>Hitler.
> Just by coincidence this Sunday's Brisbane Sunday Mail newspaper featured
>John Simpson Kirkpatrick better known as perhaps one of Australia's best
>known heroes in WW1, as just Simpson and his Donkey. I won't go into any
>details, as this is very well presented in the article, but it seems the
>Australian Government are now seriously considering awarding this man the
>Australian version of the Victoria Cross posthumously after 90 years have
>passed, and in time for this year's Anzac Day. This is after he was turned
>down by the British Ministry of Defence in 1917, despite being well and
>truly deserving of this award through some mix up in red tape. I hope this
>really happens this year and corrects a wrong allowed to continue for the
>past 90 years.
>cheers
>Bob Campbell
>in Brisbane Australia
>
>
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