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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-11 > 1162501530


From: "Sasson Margaliot" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Neolithic J2 and E3b in Britain? Maybe not.
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:05:30 +0200
References: <3b2a446a0611010918j45594e12r28817e9f8821f252@mail.gmail.com><042401c6fe97$5ce8b830$6401a8c0@Precision360><3b2a446a0611020852u457ad5e8n68b92b2596ec2566@mail.gmail.com><002301c6fe9f$e6148f00$6400a8c0@Ken1> <454A281C.4010200@sbcglobal.net><003301c6fea4$3e0849a0$6400a8c0@Ken1><3b2a446a0611021215h61cedffg7107d56be981f8c3@mail.gmail.com><000601c6febe$4380e580$6400a8c0@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <000601c6febe$4380e580$6400a8c0@Ken1>


So the equivalent mutations are the norm and not exception!

If so, the nearly "universal concensus" for placing the Root between the
groups A anb B, has no solid basis: the few SNP shared by Haplogroup AB and
chimps is just a case of equivalent (parallel) mutations...

8 equivalent mutations that you count in D2b is more than needed if the
group F is the Root of the Tree.

Sasson


On 11/2/06, Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sasson Margaliot" <>
>
> > Just look at transition from D to D2b - FIVE parallel mutations! And
> > there
> > are many other odd things...
>
>
> By 5 parallel mutations do you mean 5 "equivalent" SNPs? In Jobling tree
> I
> count 7 equivalent SNPs to define D2, and then another for D2b. But
> that's
> not important.
>
> These are just SNP mutations at different places in the ydna. I don't
> know
> why the term "parallel" is brought into their description?
>
> I believe multiple equivalent SNP mutations defining major haplogroups is
> the rule and is to be expected. It is just a matter of when each of them
> are discovered. In some cases they were discovered in a burst, in other
> cases spread out in time or not yet. Look at I1a --- 4 equivalent SNPs
> defining it, or (new) I1b2 having 4 equivalent SNPs. Haplogroup I has
> M170,
> P19, M258 and maybe P38 already.
>
> If you look at the reduced tree, there are typically a good number of
> generations between generalized founders --- males with at least two male
> descendants whose lines persist to the present. If there is an average of
> one SNP produced per father/son transition, then the typical generalized
> founder --- who are after all the only guys who have the potential to
> become
> founders of clades --- will have a good number of unique SNPs accumulated
> between himself and his first ancestor who is also a generalized founder.
> All those SNP mutations are from our vantage point completely equivalent.
> We'd have to be able to do SNP testing on ancient mummies or bones in
> order
> to possibly see differences between these SNPs.
>
> Ken
>
>
>

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