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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-08 > 1122999938


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Peculiar 385a & b Question
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:25:38 -0600
References: <080220051527.26585.42EF90C80009AABF000067D92207021053050B989A0E00@comcast.net>


Just about all Europeans came from Central Asia or Mid-East, so its mainly a
matter of when and by which route. The Slavic R1a and Norwegian R1a look
far apart and probably split long ago, but there are neighboring motifs of
R1a (with 15 at DYS19) which look like close relatives to the Norwegian R1a
and populate neighboring places like Sweden, Western Poland, Eastern
Germany, etc. Right now an origin for Norwegian R1a due to speading from
somewhere along the southeastern Baltic shore is also a viable scenario.

I see much more of this R1a motif in Norway than Sweden, so if it represents
a Ynglinga Dynasty of Sweden it looks like they more or less packed up all
their bags and babies and moved on to Norway at some point. You probably
heard of the view in Trondelag that their ancient origins are in good
measure from across the mountains in Sweden. It could be just a product of
a gentle pass in that region and therefore significant commerce going back
into the mist of history?

Sorenson of course has negligible Central Asian haplotypes, so for now I
call it the Norwegian variety of R1a because more of it is there than any
other place I can measure. The Shetland results that you have could
represent a "Shetland Dynasty" that came from Norway at some point.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Faux" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Peculiar 385a & b Question


> Ken:
>
> I prefer to call this the Norse - Central Asian variety reflecting the
strong linkages with individuals who have this motif to Central Asia but not
Europe. Only access to the databases of Hammer via FTDNA would show this -
the YHRD has few samples from Central Asia and none that test key markers.
Every single one of my Aboriginal Shetland R1a1 tested have this motif and I
believe it reflects the migration of members of one or a few Central Asian
tribal units with mostly R1a1, and some Q, and K and perhaps C3 (but the
latter is entirely conjecture until we sample more heavily from Norway) -
those who became the Ynglinga Dynasty in Sweden then Norway and who
populated Shetland but not Orkney (strangely) - with the latter more closely
resembling the generic Slavic R1a1 from the Baltic Region.
>
> David F.
>
> --
> Admin for FAUX Surname Project, and SHETLAND ISLANDS Y-DNA and mtDNA
Geographical Project.
> www.davidkfaux.org
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > 15,25,11 is the "Norwegian" motif for R1a. You should be able to confirm
> > membership in this quite localized variety with your YCAIIa,b value.
While
> > 19,23 is the norm for Slavic R1a and much of Scandinavian R1a, this
> > Norwegian variety has 19,21 to go along with the 15,25,11
> >
> > Ken
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [DNA] Peculiar 385a & b Question
> >
> >
> > > Well, that is interesting. I just had not seen that before, and I
couldn't
> > > find another like him in R1a. I presume it could just be a big
mutation
> > from
> > > 11,14 since all else is thus far like R1a. I was just reading some old
> > comments
> > > of Ken's on R1a Norse and I guess when the 25 alleles come in I will
still
> > > need to go to 37 to get the Yca numbers to flesh this haplotype out.
Is
> > there a
> > > SNP for R1a? On 390 he has 25, 19 is 15, 391 is 11. Any further
thoughts
> > from
> > > anyone? And thanks ,Ken, for the info. I will look at the I group
,too.
> > > Margretta
>
>
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