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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-08 > 1091459633


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] J2 HG in Scotland
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <410E4D7D.10301@scs.uiuc.edu>


Doug:

I'm not sure I understand your point as clearly as I'd
like to- could you clarify for me? Are you saying
that R1a found in Scotland and Norway are tied to
Altai region, and therefore you want to explore the
possibility that J2 is as well?

I'm all for exploration. But what is the proof that
J2 moved from the Altai to Britain (or from the Altai
to Norway and hence to Britain)? What is the proof
that J2 was there in Central Asia in any great numbers
and has distinctive haplotypes that we are now finding
in Britain (but not Turkish or Lebanese, hence the
differentiation between Neolithic farmers and
Samartians)? This seems purely hypothetical to me.
What are the distinctive sub-clades of J2 that are
found in Central Asia?

R1a is different than J2- it developed in southern
Russia very near the Altai mountains. Does anyone
even know the amount of J2 in the Altai region today?
Or in groups believed to have originated in the Altai
region (like the Kets, who have now moved further
north)?

I continue to ask the questions in my previous
posting: where is the evidence? This would include
archeaological, linguistic, historical and - most
importantly - DNA evidence. And how can the J2 (and
it's various sub-clades - let's not forget about them)
be differentiated in Central Asia (Kazakhstan, let's
say) from those in Turkey/Syria/Lebanese J2 from those
in England? Can they be?

Ellen Coffman






--- Doug McDonald <> wrote:

> ellen Levy wrote:
> > Hi List:
> >
> > I hate to play devil's-advocate here, and hope no
> one
> > will take offense, but how do you know that J2 in
> this
> > case is Sarmatian in origin versus the Neolithic
> > farmers (versus the Romans)?
>
> Another point, especially concerning R1a in
> Scotland,
> Norway, and other northern areas:
>
> How do we know that one region with a high R1a
> content
> is the source of similar R1a haplotypes in another
> region (of low or moderate R1a content) rather than
> the
> source of both being some intermediate region? The
> R1a
> people in question could have long since left the
> latter.
> We of course know quite well, and this is not my
> question,
> where R1a originally came from, the question is
> about the
> interesting haplotypes that tie some Scots (i.e. me)
> and Norwegians
> to people in the Altai.
>
> The exact same question applies, of course, to the
> J2.
>
> Doug McDonald
>
>
> ==============================
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>


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