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Archiver > GEN-ROYAL > 2003-10 > 1065843881


From: Leo van de Pas <>
Subject: Is the Dutch Royal Family a Mess, in more than one way?
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:44:41 +1000
References: <blrs6n+prrj@eGroups.com>


What is happening now in the Dutch Royal family may give us something to
ponder about.

Apparently there is talk that Prince Johan Friso could keep his title of
Prince of The Netherlands (Princess Irene could not) this could imply that
Mabel should get the title as well. In The Netherlands we do not know of
morganatic marriages.

This brings me to my main topic, I think the Dutch Royal family has been
made a huge mess, because they would not give Pieter van Vollenhoven a title
when he married Princess Margriet.

Beforehand, as far as I know, all Princes of the Dutch Royal family had the
same title.
They were all Prince/Princess of The Netherlands, Prince/Princess of
Orange-Nassau.
You can look this up in Nederland's Adelsboek where all male line
descendants of King Willem I are recorded.

I do not know whether the idea was (as in Spain and Russia) that the titles
only went for a set number of generations. I think not, as far as I know
when a Prince of The Netherlands married appropriately, his children were
also Princes of The Netherlands.

What we have now are Life Peerages (unheard of in The Netherlands) for the
children of Princess Margriet, who are Prince of Orange-Nassau, van
Vollenhoven. When these four sons are married and have children they should
have been plain van Vollenhoven. The first one who married, Maurits, did a
very nice thing (in my opinion) by adding the surname of van
Lippe-Biesterfeld to the surname of his children, and they are now known by
the rather unwieldy name of van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Vollenhoven.

In other words, the children of Princess Margriet are second rate Dutch
princes, something the children of King Willem I's second son were not.

I believe that the children of Princess Margriet should have been fully
fledged Prince of The Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven,
after all wasn't sexism to be avoided? If Beatrix and Margriet had been
male, this would have been very different.

And now we come to the children of Queen Beatrix. They are Prince of The
Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg. What has
happened here? Madness in my opinion. Prince Constantijn, if we place his
situation the same as that of Princess Margriet, his children should have
been Prince/Princess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer/ Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.
Which turns them also into second rate members of the Royal family. Does
this make the descendants of Princess Margriet third rate?

But what has happened, the first child of Prince Constantijn is Countess
Eloise van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.

Is Prince Johan Friso, elder brother of Constantijn, creating even more
chaos?
What if they allow him to remain a Prince of The Netherlands, what about
Mabel?
Are they again going to do something never heard of before in the Dutch
Royal family?
If she becomes a Princess of The Netherlands, with or without HRH, what use
is it asking permission of the Dutch Parliament? Whether Johan Friso remains
in line for the throne or not, the Parliament should decide whether someone
is fit to be a Princess of The Netherlands (by marriage).

Or are they going to give her a courtesy title, say Countess van Buren,
while Johan Friso, no longer in line for the throne, remains a Prince of The
Netherlands?

I think Princess Irene, who for me always will be Princess Irene, gave the
example.
Not only is she no longer a Princess of The Netherlands, she has reverted to
her father's surname and as well has dropped the title of Princess.

In my opinion, which does not count for much, I think the same should happen
with Johan Friso. He should revert to his father's surname and he should be
known as von Amsberg, not even Jonkheer van Amsberg as that was changed on
behalf of his father when he became a member of the Dutch Royal House. As
far as I see it, Johan Friso is going to cease being a member of the Dutch
Royal House even if he always will be a member of the Dutch Royal Family.

With Best wishes
Leo van de Pas




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