GEN-ROYAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-ROYAL > 1999-12 > 0944803759


From: <>
Subject: Re: Noble introductions
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:29:19 -0500


wrote:

> In a message dated 12/9/99 1:13:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> << According to *Debrett's Correct Form*: "[The combination of] 'von and z=
> u' is a
> 19th century bit of nonsense....The prefix 'zu' is only used in writing. =
> A Baron
> with both designations, would be announced either as 'Baron von....', or =
> 'Herr
> von....,' but would not introduce himself with either prefix."
>
> Rafal Heydel-Mankoo >>
>
> Among themselves nobles do not generally use titles or predicates when
> introducing or speaking of themselves or their families....I would introduce
> myself as "Studnitz" or "Gilbert Studnitz", while a Count Adam von Schmidt zu
> Schmidtchen would introduce himself as "Schmidt" or "Adam Schmidt".
>
> Gilbert von Studnitz

That is quite correct. It is considered quite "non-u" to introduce oneself by
one's title when amongst other titled people (especially when they are of the
same nationality). Indeed today it is usually only the toastmaster and/or person
introducing the noble to another who will announce that the person possesses a
title. Most of the titled persons I know introduce themselves (in *both* noble
and non-noble situations) soley by their christian name and surname. Indeed, most
members of the nobility (especially those who were dispossesed during the war)
would find the practice of introducing oneself as "Baron X" extremely
pretentious. I have only seen it occur on a couple of occasions within a private
setting and, as virtually everyone else at the house has been of an equal or
higher rank, they have always found it vastly amusing. This summer a lady who
was invited to dinner rang my aunt's apartment buzzer and when I answered the
telecom she informed me that "Countess X has arrived." I can only assume she
thought I was staff. I was sorely tempted to introduce myself as "Rafal
Heydel-Mankoo, Esquire".
All that being said, it is not uncommon for many people to become quite
embarrassed when someone mentions that they have a title or expresses an interest
in the origins. I find that to be a shame and a sad sign of today's world.

Rafal Heydel-Mankoo

This thread: