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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-09 > 0936257706


From: "Leo van de Pas" <>
Subject: Re: William Wallace
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:35:06 +0800


Dear Mr. MagLochlainn,
Your message was very interesting and you did tell me a few things I was
not aware of, but we are straying into forbidden grounds "Off Topic"

In Braveheart an unknown (Wallace) is exposed all over the world and as this
is the first time he received such a wide audience, that is my reason for
disagreeing with the falsification of history that took place. The story of
Mary, Queen of Scots, is wellknown and therefor a 'variation on that theme'
would do no harm.

I have not seen the movie and, apparently, it must be a good tale and well
told as it received all those aclaims. However, the subject of Edward II's
homosexual relationships have been dealt with on this list several times
that I am aware of, and nobody has been able to produce acceptable proof or
even references that Edward II engaged in homosexual activities. And so,
again, in Braveheart, poetic license was used to suit the story and so, in
my opinion, the movie, on that subject also, has to be moved further into
the realm of fiction.

On this group we should stick to facts and, ok, obviously Braveheart is a
great movie, everybody says so, but it aint history. That Robert the Bruce
was no physical coward has also been discussed and, I for one, still would
like to ask : Who are the parents of Henry de Bohun? His uncle, we know,
married Princess Elizabeth of England, but The Complete Peerage, nor The
Extinct Peerage give this Humphrey de Bohun a brother that must have
fathered this Henry. I have found three references in regards to the way
Robert The Bruce killed this Henry and, each time, he is referred to as a
nephew of Humphrey, Earl of Hereford.

Hope somebody can tell.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: P A MagLOCHLAINN <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: William Wallace


> We might compare the Gaveston defenestration to the treatment which the
King
> of Prussia meted out to HIS son's lover - compelling the Prince to watch
his
> life-partner being shot down in cold blood. That certainly "made a man
out
> of" young Prince Fritz... What a happy engaging individual he became in
> later life!
>
> But then the Prussians' heirs the Nazis had such a winning way with gay
> people - how many did they murder in the concentration camps? Funny how
we
> never hear that it was the PINK triangle that was bigger than all the
> others - so that these particular enemies of the people could be more
easily
> picked out for target practice.
>
> Any maybe that's why the gay lobby is so touchy - not a single gay
> concentration camp prisoner has received a single penny of compensation -
to
> this very day. In fact, the righteous Allies actually took some of them
out
> of the hell of the concentration camps, and then popped them back in jail
> because they were "criminals". Meanwhile, West Germany happily paid war
> pensions to those solid citizens whose service had consisted of being
> concentration camp guards.
>
> Take your foot off my head, and maybe I'll be able to join in your
laughter.
>
> P A MagLochlainn ().
> ======
> tiglath wrote in message <7qk7a4$nb6$1@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
> >
> >D. Spencer Hines <> wrote in message
> >news:7qjvoi$p41$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
>
> >> Yes, this scene garnered Mel Gibson the universal hate of the
Homosexual
> Lobbies.
> >>
> >> _Braveheart_ was picketed in Los Angeles and at other urban locations.
> >> There was much anger in certain quarters when the film won the Academy
> >> Award for Best Picture.
> >>
> >> Susan Sarandon, in particular, took a very strong line against it.
> >>
> >> Gibson is still hated by these folks. They will not even use his
> >> name. Rather than saying, "A poster wrote," as some simpering cowards
> >> do here --- they uniformly refer to Gibson as "Attila The Hun."
> >>
> >> They were simply outraged by the defenestration of the Piers de
> >> Gaveston character --- and condemned it as grossly "homophobic." The
> >> issue of the baneful influence that Piers was exerting on Edward,
> >> Prince of Wales, with his cock-eyed military advice, is totally lost
> >> on them.
> >
> >It was lost because it was not given as much footage as the homo issue,
> >probably intentionally. I have heard often enough that we must not
see
> >those times with 20th century eyes. If so, there are a few historical
> >considerations. Ancient Greeks did not share the homoerotic terror
> >heterosexual males have today, but I think (you can correct me here) 13th
> >century English heterosexual males were closer to us than to the Greeks
in
> >their thoughts on homosexuality. Modern fathers can't kick out of the
> >window their son's male lovers with impunity, much as they might want to,
> >but Longshanks could.
>
> (snip)
> ===================
>
>
>
>

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