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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-03 > 0920298884


From: John Carmi Parsons <>
Subject: Re:Subject: Re: Catherine of Valois' second marriage?
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:34:44 -0500 (EST)


On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 Michelle.Murphy% wrote:

>>> uncle Edmund. (Does anyone know why Margaret did not inherit the Dukedom,
>>> and also why her wardship was not passed to her uncle, but rather to someone
>>> who was no relation whatsoever?)

>>It has been a very rare thing in England that dukedoms have ever been created
>>in such way as to descend to women.

> Was Anne Mowbray, wife of Richard Duke of York (second son of Edward IV) not
> heiress to the Dukedom of Norfolk?

No. She was the heir only to the earldom of Norfolk in fee, and to the lands
of the Mowbray dukes. The Mowbray dukedom of Norfolk dated from 1397; Richard
II created it by letters patent and restricted it to the male line of the
Mowbray descendants of Edward I's granddaughter Margaret, who was the only
surviving child of Thomas of Brotherton and in her own right countess of
Norfolk and countess Marshal. Anne Mowbray's husband, Richard of York, was I
believe CREATED duke of Norfolk after their marriage, but this was a fresh act
of creation and did not depend on Anne's inheritance of the earldom in fee.

>> They are usually created in tail male--i.e.
>>only inherited through and by males.
> I wasn't aware that anything like the Salic law existed in England - for
> Earldoms etc lands were usually divided among female heirs.

This has nothing to do with Salic Law. English dukedoms were simply limited
to tail male, primarily because aristocratic society preferred inheritance in
the male line. The earldoms you refer to were the older ones known as earldoms
in fee, and like the earldom of Norfolk mentioned above, women could inherit
them. In more recent times, most earldoms created by letters patent have also
been limited to tail male, as have the overwhelming majority of marquessates,
viscountcies and baronies. The older baronies by writ can also be inherited
through and by women, but not the more recent ones created by letters patent.

>>As Jasper was Edmund's brother not his son, he had no claim to Edmund's
>>earldom, still less to the dukedom of Somerset, which was of course vested
>>in the Beauforts not the Tudors.

> Edmund Tudor was never Duke of Somerset! I was talking about Edmund Beaufort,
> brother of John Beaufort Duke of Somerset (Margaret Beaufort's father). After
> John Beaufort's death, the Dukedom passed to his brother Edmund: Margaret's
> uncle. Of course I know that Edmund was never the Duke of Somerset: hence the
> origin of my question!

Again this was because the Beaufort dukedom (and earldom) of Somerset were
created in tail male. Margaret inherited the estates, which were not entailed,
but not the titles. This was why her early death would have been so valuable
to her uncle Edmund--he would thus have reunited the estates and the titles.

John Parsons

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