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From: Nigel Barker <>
Subject: Re: Ivo and Lucy Talybois
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:30:30 +0100


In article <>, writes
>
>In a message dated 10/1/98 2:07:03 AM, writes:
>
><<I was under the impression that Lucy only had a daughter, Beatrice, by Ivo
>who married Ribald of Middleham (see Keats-Rohan's "Domesday Book and the
>Malets: Patrimony and the Private Histories of Public Lives" Table 2) though
>Washington and Moriarty (see below) surmise that the only daughter of Ivo
>was Christina wife of Chetell. Appendix J in CP VII:743 does not credit Lucy
>and Ivo with any offspring (though I may have missed something - small print
>& bad eyesight!).>>
>
>Your obsertvations were most interesting and lead to the need for additional
>inquiry. I believe she had two children.

I set out some further information which may assist this matter -
another doubtful Charter of a Religeous House, with partisan views, may
be distorting proper genealogy!
>
VICTORIA HISTORY OF LANCASHIRE
VOL I pp35>

.Notes from passage on the family of Lancaster, Barons of Kendal

[The origin of the family is obscure.]

[Small landholder within the Barony of Coupland.]

[Granted land by William Meschine when he was granted his fief by Henry
I.]

"The first recorded member is little mentioned beyond the bare fact that
his name was Gilbert and his wife's name was Godith (Lancs Fines Rec Soc
XXXIX 61). To this the monkish chroniclers have added the fiction that
he was the son of Ketel, son of Eldred, son of Ivo Taillebois (Mon Angl
iii 553 & Cockersands Cartulary, Chethem Soc (New Series) xxxix 305),
whereas he was almost, if not quite, contemporary with Ivo, by whom
Gilbert and his predecessor was probably enffeoffed of those manors
within the Barony of Westmoreland which his descendants, the barons of
Kendal, where chief lords. (Gilbert fitz Reinford & Helewise his wife
confirmed some of Ivo's grants to the Abbey of St. Mary, York (Mon Ang
iii 566))

The connection which existed between the heirs of Ketel, son of Eldred,
namely the Curwens of Workington, and the Lancasters, of whom the former
held several manors in Cumberland and Westmoreland, was probably of
tenure rather than consanguinity. Intimately connected with this subject
is a charter, of which an ancient transcript is preserved at Levens
Hall, by which Roger de Mawbury grants to William son of Gilbert de
Lancaster,in fee and inheritance, "all my land of Lonsdale, and of
Kendal, and Horton in Ribblesdale, to hold by the service of 4 knights
(Reg of Deeds at Levens Hall f79, Lancs Pipe Reg 389). It would be
interesting to discuss the question as to whether this charter
represents an original grant or merely a confirmation of a much older
infeudation.

William son of Gilbert was the first to be enfeoffed of land in
Lancaster. In 1212 he is described as "Willelmus filiuus Gibberti
premus". He is not always described as "de Lancaster" for which it may
be inferred that he was the first of his line to be associated with the
Court and its Lords. The Mon. Chronicle to which allusion has already
been made tells us that he caused himself to be called "de Lancaster" by
the King's Licence, and to be styled before the King in Parliament (sic)
"William de Lancaster, Baron Kendal". The same Chronicle states that he
married Gundreda, formerly Countess of Warwick, whose husband, Roger de
Newburgh, died in 1153.

William de Lancaster died in or after 1170.

Et seq.

--
Nigel Barker

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