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From: "D. Spencer Hines" <>
Subject: Re: Mistress of Henry II 'Curtmantle' [Correction]
Date: 1 Oct 1998 19:08:32 GMT


Vide infra.

Make that "Countess Ida" --- which is, of course, a misquote by Todd A.
Farmerie.

The reported original was allegedly in Latin. Real scholars don't perform
sleights of hand of that sort. They quote and *then* translate.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas
--

D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in business, I
might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now I
wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for cleaning
out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]

D. Spencer Hines wrote in message <6v0hf8$>...
>Vide infra.
>
>Let Todd carry his own water on this one. He's a big boy, capable of
>carrying a bucket on each shoulder. Hines was responding to his discrete
>points, not some ancient dispute.
>
>Allen's arguments are off the point. Hines's discussion of the Bradenstoke
>Cartulary and associated matters having to do with the alleged "Countess
>Lucy" are a matter of public record at Deja News. Allen should re-read
>those posts before she tells Hines, and SGM, what he said. Quite obviously
>Allen has a very poor memory of what Hines did, in fact, say. If she
>desires to quote from those records let her not cut and paste, but show
>Hines's complete arguments --- unabridged.
>
>Further, her last point is total, unadulterated gibberish. Read it again
>and weep or laugh, gentle readers.
>
>>As I remember you had no argument as to why we should not accept the
>>Bradenstoke Cartulary, except that none of us had seen the original.
>>Well, you haven't either so your reluctance to accept it is less
>>well-founded than our acceptance of it.
>
>Kay Allen 1 Oct 1998
>
>That sounds like something an elementary school kid might say as a
>playground taunt, when frustrated and unable to come up with anything
>better --- certainly not a reasoned, adult, scholarly statement of fact.
>
>No, Hines will deal with the Organ Grinder --- Todd A. Farmerie --- but not
>with his Pet Monkey --- complete with little red pillbox hat, neatly laced
>under her cute, furry chin.
>
>It would be best if Douglas Richardson were to get off his ruddy fundament
>and publish his article on "Countess Ida." [corrected] He is still working
with David
>Faris, I suppose.
>
>Even Allen, herself, was taking that position, more than once, just a few
>short months ago. [She did not mention the ruddy fundament.] She seems to
>have conveniently forgotten that critical fact.
>
>We need documentation and reasoned interpretation, not speculation. pcr
may
>have some more to add. His previous speculations concerning the identity
of
>the alleged "Countess Ida" [corrected] have been professional and helpful.
>
>Best Wishes To All,
>
>D. Spencer Hines
>
>Lux et Veritas
>Fortem Posce Animum
>--
>
>D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in business, I
>might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now I
>wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for cleaning
>out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
>billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
>President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
>William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]
>
>G . EDWARD ALLEN wrote in message <>...
>
>>D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>>>
>>> That is far from definitive and unimpeachable proof.
>>>
>>> So, 'nuff has not been said.
>>>
>>> Douglas Richardson should publish, or is this writer implying that he
>has?
>>>
>>> D. Spencer Hines
>>>
>>> Exitus Acta Probat
>>> --
>>>
>>> D. Spencer Hines --- "I said in 1992 he's a bright young guy in
business,
>I
>>> might put him somewhere and train him to be a middle manager. Right now
I
>>> wouldn't have him third shift in a hamburger stand responsible for
>cleaning
>>> out the sink after everybody had gone home." --- H. Ross Perot, Texas
>>> billionaire, who spent $65 million of his own money in 1992 defeating
>>> President George Herbert Walker Bush and opening the door to President
>>> William Jefferson Clinton. [9/26/98]
>>>
>>> Todd A. Farmerie wrote in message <>...
>>> >ED MANN wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Gail Hopkins wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Who is wife of Henry II curtmantle King of England is Sir William
>>> >> > Longspee his son. trying to sort out a mistake in file. thanks gail
>>> >>
>>> >> It's unknown - said to be Ikenai, "a common prostitute, but probably
>the
>>> >> daughter of a knight." Wier ewho lists this calls it doubtful. See
>>> >> BRF:63.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Ikenai was the mother of another of Henry's bastards, Archbishop
>>> >Geoffrey. William Longespee, in his own words, calls his mother
>>> >'Countess Ida'. 'Nuff said.
>>> >
>>> >taf
>>
>>Spencer,
>>
>>Whether Douglas Richardson has published or not is immaterial. May I
>>refer you back to the Bradenstoke Cartulary argument which consumed
>>much bandwidth at least twice in the past. (See Countess Ida and
>>Bradenstoke Cartulary threads)
>>
>>As I remember you had no argument as to why we should not accept the
>>Bradenstoke Cartulary, except that none of us had seen the original.
>>Well, you haven't either so your reluctance to accept it is less
>>well-founded than our acceptance of it.
>>
>>You write:
>>
>>"Proofs in Genealogy are must needs becoming more demanding. A more
>>sophisticated audience will not accept the old balderdash that was
>>palmed off as Gospel Truth by charlatan genealogists of the past---
>>even the relatively recent past."
>>
>>Are you equating the Bradenstoke Cartulary as we have previously
>>discussed it with the likes of Horatio Gates Somersby and other
>>charlatans? If so, why do you equate it so?
>>
>>Kay Allen AG
>
>

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