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From: Vickie Elam White< >
Subject: Re: Discovering The Identity of William Longspee's Mother
Date: 6 Mar 1998 07:05:16 -0800


I had written --

>I, too, have seen the 1188 date many times, but with no firm source.
>I will check my files to see if I can track it down.
>
>Meanwhile, although this won't help nail down William's birth year, it
>can put the upper limit on it:
>
>CP XI:379 footnote f states "In the fiscal year 1196-7 he received
>the 3rd penny of Wilts by the King's writ." I am not sure if William
>would have had to be 21 or more to receive that 3rd penny, but if so
>then that would put his year of birth at no later than ca 1175.
>
>Also, on the same page, it states that he was "Sheriff of Wilts,
>Midsummer 1199-1202." Certainly he must have been over 21 to hold this
>office, so that would fix his year of birth at no later than ca 1178.

I found a reference to that 1188 date. That was the year he received
Appleby, co. Lincoln from Henry II. My source was NEHGR 119:100-101,
which in turn cited the DNB 34:115 and DNB 11:75. I don't have
access to the DNB, but perhaps someone can look that up and give us
the particulars of this grant?

The NEHGR article also included a brief outline of why the William
LONGESPEE who received the 1188 grant could *not* have been the first
William LONGESPEE (whom Henry de Bracton said was William, Count of
Poitou, brother of Henry II) and must have been the son of Henry II.

So, if our William LONGESPEE was at least 21 in 1188, then he was
born no later than 1167. This effectively eliminates Ida of Boulogne
as his mother, since she was born ca 1160.

Vickie Elam White

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