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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1998-02 > 0886737524


From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Muhammad's family in Europe.
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 22:58:44 -0500


I am going to go back to my notes and see what I have on some of this,
but I will address some of it now.

Francisco Antonio Doria wrote:

> Main source for the da Maya family is the Sancto Thyrso document, which refers to the way the
> heirs of - I'll soon explain the name - Abu-Nazar Lovesendes divided among themselves their
> inheritance. It is dated c. 1090, but only known thru a 15th century copy, published by dom
> Antonio Caetano de Sousa in his *Historia Genealogica...* (Genealogy of Portugal's Royal House).

Give me volume and page for this so I needn't request all 12 volumes
through ILL.

> > Rodriguez,
> > in his biography of Ramiro II, briefly investigated this tradition. It
> > has its origin in a poetic source called "Miragaia" (or something like
> > that), which describes the marriage/relationship of Ramiro with the
> > sister of Alboazar, through whom he came to control the land around
> > Gaia, and passed this claim to their son Ordono. In later versions of
> > the tradidion, Ordono became Audonio, and even Antonio, before finally
> > fixing on the name of the uncle, Alboazar.
>
> Not quite so. The attested name is Abuuazar, or Abu-Nazar.

Not in the Miragaia tradition it's not.

It is not clear to me exactly at what point in the development of this
tradition involving Ramiro's acquisition of Gaia that the link to Maya
was made - whether it was a late graft based on the similarity of the
name of the Maya founder with that of Ramiro's "brother-in-law", or if
Ramiro and his son Ordono were superimposed over top of an existing Maya
tradition (where the latter the case it would require Abuuazar (or
whatever) being replaced by Ordono, then Audonio, etc. and back to
Alboazar).

> > (He does not address the
> > association of this tradition with the Maya family, and its founder
> > Alboazar (Lovesindes), but with the strict patronymic system in place at
> > the time, we can safely reject any tradition that Ramiro II was father
> > of this Lovesindes.
>
> For sure. Correct patronymic is Lovasendes or Lovesendes. Probable etimology: from Chlodweg +
> `endo' suffix (cf. Trutesendo/Trutesendes), which is a present participle/adjectival form.
> Chlodweg is Frankish. So Sir Lovesendo, Abu=Nazar's daddy, was probably a Frankish knight. He also
> most probably had a rather high social standing. I must say I don't believe that this Abu-Nazar
> Lovesendes would grow so wealthy in a single generation.

And yet if so, where is this Lovesindo in Portuguese records? Mattoso
does not mention finding any candidates for the father, and a Frankish
knight of wealth is unlikely to show up on the Portuguese border at this
time. What was the 10th century frankish form of this name (what was
Louis IV or Louis V called)?

> > I just recently got my hands on a recent literary
> > deconstruction of the Miragaia, and it addresses its connection to the
> > Maya. I will dig out the reference.) As to this muslim wife/mistress
> > being mother of Ordono III, this can be rejected, since the work of Saez
> > clearly shows his wife was a member of one of the Galician noble
> > families, which attribution is confirmed by the Codice de Roda.
>
> I have a facsimilar copy of the Codice de Roda. Makes no reference to the da Maya, but notices a
> non-Muslim (I think she was Basque) wife of Abdallah. That is known fact.

It does not mention Maya (has no reason to) but if I recall correctly,
it makes an off-handed comment about Ordono's mother being a Galician,
which is all I was refering to.

> A final word: I became interested in that when I saw some piece of news about the Queen of England
> being proud of her descent from the Prophet. Later I referred to that in a talk I gave, which was
> attended by the Countess of Paris, at Rio's College of Genealogists. She looked absent-minded all
> the time up to the moment when I mentioned the Prophet's lineage. Then she said, `I know that we
> come from him thru Zaida (Alfonso VI's Muslim wife), but it is said that we also reach him through
> Blanche de Castille.'
>
> As far as I can tell, that's false. Zaida had two children by Alfonso VI, both deceased while
> infants. (The boy, dom Sancho, died when he was eight, fighting a battle next to his father.)
> That's also historical fact.

Nothing in history is a fact :). There is a strong subcurrent (and in
recent spanish work, it is much more than that) which considers Queen
Isabella, mother of daughters Elvira Alfonso (II) and Sancha Alfonso to
be identical to Zaida/Isabella. If this is the case, then there is a
Zaida descent through Elvira's italian marriage (I cannot trace any
descendants for Sancha beyond the 4th generation, but they may exist in
a younger branch of Haro). What is your reference for a daughter of
Zaida (or a second child of either gender)? The recent accounts that I
have seen usually limit Alfonso to 6 children: Elvira (I) and Teresa by
Jimena Munoz; Urraca by Constance; Elvira (II) and Sancha by "Queen
Isabella"; and Sancho by Zaida/Isabella.

> I couldn't trace any other connection (at least obvious, or
> reasonably certain) along the ancestors of Blanche de Castille.

There are none that stand up to scruitiny. It could be that this
results from Zaida confusion, since I have seen sources which wrongly
state that Urraca was her daughter.

ta

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