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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-12 > 0881033944


From: Leo van de Pas <>
Subject: Re: Moslem Ancestors
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:39:04 +0800


At 07:27 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Leo van de Pas <> wrote:
>>
>
>>> In regards to Alfonso VI and his relations is concerned:
>>> he married first Agnes of Aquitaine, a marriage which remained childless;
>>> he married secondly Constance de Bourgogne, they produced six children,
>>> but only Uracca, his heir, and Donna Sancha (who remained childless)
>>> survived.
>>
>>I think this Dona Sancha is incorrect. While Uracca had an unmarried
>>aunt and an unmarried daughter of this name, this is the first I have
>>seen her assigned such a sister.
>........Your remark made me look into Isenburg, he makes Uracca an only
>child of that marriage. However, Schwennicke muddies the waters:
>He gives Alfonso VI and Constance de Bourgogne a second daughter:
>Elvira in between brackets (Sancha) died young.
>>
>>> He married thirdly Berta, who died childless
>>> He married fourthly Dona Isabel, who probably came from France, she was
>>> he mother of two daughters:
>>> Sancha married DonRodrigo Gonzalez de Lara, and Elvira who married
>>> Roger II of Sicily
>>> He married fifthly Dona Beatriz who survived him but produced no children.
>>
>>Left out of this account are the children of the Monarch by his first
>>(known) mistress, Jimena Munoz.
>.......It was not my intention to display all progeny, only those connections
>which might lead to the Moslem connection.
>>>
>>> The Moslem Zaida, baptised as Isabelle (her gravestone states :
>>> Domna Elisabeth, Uxor Regis Alfonsi, Filia Benaut Regis Siviliae,
>>> quae prius Zaida fuit vocata) however is a more recent one, the
>>> previous stone only recorded "Zayda Regina". Historians agree she was
>>> not a wife but a concubine, and she was only the mother of a son who
>>> died young.
>>
>>Actually, they don't. There are three views on this, and I have a
>>recent author suggesting each. These opinions are:
>>
>>1) A french christian Isabella was Alfonso's only Queen of that name,
>>mother of Sancha and Elvira (II) and Zaida/Isabella was only a mistress.
>>
>>2) Alfonso married both the french christian Isabella, having his
>>daughters, but following her death married Zaida/Isabella, in part to
>>legitimize her son Sancho.
>>
>>3) The christian french Isabella is an invention to sanitize the fact
>>that Alfonso married a muslim. Alfonso actually married only one
>>Isabella, the muslim Zaida, and by her had Sancha, Elvira II, and
>>Sancho.
>>
>>Option 3 is the predominant viewpoint among the spanish research
>>community, and was followed by Schwennicke, while most non-Spanish
>>follow either 1 or 2. (This should not be interpreted as somehow
>>nationalistic though. Most non-Spanish have difficulties keeping up
>>with the rapid pace of the latest generation of Spanish researchers, and
>>are still relying on Menendez Pidal and his predicessors).
>>
>>> And so sadly for me, the line is cut in two places, Zaida is not the
>>> mother of Sancha, and Zaida is not the daughter of the Emir of Seville.
>..........Your attempt to restore Zaida as Sancha's mother sounds
>acceptable. However, she is still not the daughter of the Emir of Seville.
>
>>Equally important, Sancha is not the mother of Rodrigo Rodriguez de
>>Lara, who was an invention of later genealogists, and hence wasnot the
>>father of the several Rodriguez de Lara daughters usually assigned to
>>him. As far as I have been able to tell, Sancha had only one descendant
>>in the fourth generation, Juan Diaz de Haro (son of Armengol Lopez de
>>Haro, for whom see Schwennicke's Viscaya I table).
>>
>>taf
>>Sadly, Turton is wrong then as well.
>However, was there a Sancha Rodriguez de Lare who married Gonzalo Ruiz II
>Giron? And who were her parents?
>Leo van de Pas
>>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
** Leo van de Pas ** Centraal Bureau http://www.cbg.nl
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Home Page : http://www.iinet.net.au/~leovdpas/genealogics.html

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