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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-12 > 0880969211


From: Leo van de Pas <>
Subject: Moslem Ancestors
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:40:11 +0800


Zaida was one of the errors I made too. A descendant, for whom I had
made a tree, passed it to the Society of Genealogists in London and
they came back to me, to tell there was an error. Since then, the
Dutch Genealogical Society's magazine "Gens Nostra", in 1985, had
an interesting article "persistent rumours" (1985 page 444 and on).

I know translating is something special, but I will try.

I will start halfway the Zaida story. "Further research, amongst others
by the wellknown historian R. Menendez Pidal and E. Levi-Provencal,
has established that Zaida was not a daughter, but possibly a
daughter-in-law, of the Moslem ruler of Seville. It is possible, but
not established, that her father was another "Taifa", by the name
of Alhayib, Ruler of Lerida and Denia (1081-1090), who, however, is not
a descendant of the Prophet.

King Alfonso and Zaida had only one son, Infante Don Sancho, who as a
youth was killed in the battle of Ucles (30 May 1108).

In regards to Alfonso VI and his relations is concerned:
he married first Agnes of Aquitaine, a marriage which remained childless;
he married secondly Constance de Bourgogne, they produced six children,
but only Uracca, his heir, and Donna Sancha (who remained childless)
survived.
He married thirdly Berta, who died childless
He married fourthly Dona Isabel, who probably came from France, she was
he mother of two daughters:
Sancha married DonRodrigo Gonzalez de Lara, and Elvira who married
Roger II of Sicily
He married fifthly Dona Beatriz who survived him but produced no children.

The Moslem Zaida, baptised as Isabelle (her gravestone states :
Domna Elisabeth, Uxor Regis Alfonsi, Filia Benaut Regis Siviliae,
quae prius Zaida fuit vocata) however is a more recent one, the
previous stone only recorded "Zayda Regina". Historians agree she was
not a wife but a concubine, and she was only the mother of a son who
died young.

And so sadly for me, the line is cut in two places, Zaida is not the
mother of Sancha, and Zaida is not the daughter of the Emir of Seville.

-------The article continues into other subjects:

"One problem which appears is the "giving of names" which hides origins.
Even today names (meaning surnames) are translated and changed in the
process. Not only by adoptions but also with migration to countries
with another language. Dutchman Mr. de Jong moves to an English speaking
country and becomes Mr. Young. President Hoover, originated in a non-English
country as his ancestors spoke German and their name had been Huber.

The author (of that article) found in his ancestorlist a Mr. Smid,
living in Leiden who originally came from Belgium and there was
baptised with the surname of Marechal (marechal ferrant=blacksmith
specializing in horseshoes). As well, he found a member of his family
whose surname "Wielje" covered up a Spanish name: Villed y Rical.

However, first names also can create problems. The later Russian
Rurikids have usually a Scandinavian name as well as a Slavonic one.
For instance the Grand Duke of Kiev, Mstislaw I (died 1132) in some
sources is called Harald.

Also symbols are amended, as we can see with the Rurikid clan-sign,
originally a viking raven of Odin, which was stylised into a sign
used by the Ukrainian nationalists in which with some effort a bird
can be recognised.

In Moslem Spain was a wellknown family "Banu Qasi" (or Banu Kasi)
with moslem first names, such as Mutarrif, Ismail, Muhammad. HOwever,
this family is by origin West-Gothic. The ancestor, who turned to
the Moslem religion, had been a feudal lord and, to safeguard the
family properties, in 714 went to Damascus to pay homage to
Kalief-al-Walid and secured the family's position. And then, in the
"Reconquista", the ex-moslems adopted Christian names.

Leo van de Pas

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