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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-10 > 0876614475


From: Stewart Baldwin <>
Subject: RE: GODRED CROVAN'S ANCESTRY - WELSH SOURCE
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 19:01:15 -0500


Peter E. Murray <> wrote:

[much snipping]

>>ABT.6c: Rhanallt m. Gwythryg m. Afloyd m. Gwrthryt mearch m.
>>Harallt ddu m. Ifor gamle m. Afloyd m. Swtrig.

>This genealogy is an odd mix of Norse and Celtic forms. The name
>"Ifor gamle" suggests a Norse source. "Gwythryt mearch" is clearly
>a rendition of "Goffraidh Meranaich" of the Irish annals,
>corresponding to "Godred Crovan" of the Manx Chronicle. But the
>spelling, and the form "Harallt ddu" (for Harald svarti or "the
>black") indicates either modification in Wales in its transmission,
>or that it originally came to Wales in oral form. But I agree, it
>may well reflect the state of knowledge in the time of Reginald
>(d1229).

I think the mixed Norse and Welsh forms can be adequately explained by the
suggestion that the Welsh translator of the pedigree changed the words he
understood into Welsh and left the other words alone.

Stewart Baldwin

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