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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1997-02 > 0854841133


From: Richard Borthwick <>
Subject: Re: War of Roses web of relationships - HELP !
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 07:52:13 +0800


>With the help of Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" and Weis' "Ancestral Roots. .
>.", I have been trying to chart the relationships between the dominant
>families in the time of the War of the Roses and what a tangled web it is !
>
>I've been doing pretty well, but have run into one that simply has me
>stumped. Hope someone can find the key.
>
>Weis (47D:33) has Eleanor, dau. of Thomas Holand, Earl of Kent marrying twice:
> 1.) Roger Mortimer, Earl of March (1374-1398)
> 2.) Sir Edward Cherleton, K.G., feudal Lord of Powis (1371-1420)
>
>Weis (225:34) has Anne Mortimer, dau. of marraige #1 above marrying twice:
> 1.) Richard, Earl of Cambridge (executed 1415)
> 2.) in 1399, Sir Edward Charleton, Lord of Powys (no dates given).

John Cherleton/Charleton d.1360 m. 1319 Maud Mortimer (living 1345) dau. of
Roger 1st earl of March and she was not a widow when she married John. John
C was the grandfather of Edward C. Neither of Edward's marriages was to a
Mortimer (but to a Holand and a Berkeley). Only one Edward occurs in the
succession of Cherletons set out in Complete Peerage III:160-62. So Weis
47D:33 seems correct but 225:34 2) not.

>Disregarding the slight differences in the spellings of Ch a/e rleton and
>Pow y/i s, I have got to believe that the two Sir Edwards are either the
>same person or closely related. Weis poses no relationship between them.
>
>The same Sir Edward, however, could not have married both Eleanor after
>1398 (Roger Mortimer's death) and Anne (who would then be his stepdaughter)
>in 1399. Eleanor lived until 1405, so Sir Edward certainly would not have
>married his stepdaughter while her mother was still alive ! Since this was
>Anne's second marriage, even if we assumed the above, she would have to
>still be under about 10 years of age entering into her second marriage -
>and having divorced Richard, as he was alive until 1415 ! (Anne's father
>Roger was born in 1374, dying at the age of 25, so Anne couldn't have been
>born much earlier than about 1390.)
>
>Could Anne's husband have be the son of Eleanor's husband ? For this to be
>the case, the younger Sir Edward would have had to have married his
>stepsister, Anne, as an infant under a year old. Possible, I suppose, but
>hardly likely !
>
>If all Weis' dates are correct, Anne, as pointed out above, had married
>twice before reaching age ten. This leads me to wonder if the 1399
>marriage date might be mistaken.
>
>Anyone know - or at least have a theory - as to how the two Sir Edwards are
>related ?
>Or am I missing something (it has been known to happen) :-)
>
>Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! () Jim
>
>

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