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From: JOHN de CELIS <>
Subject: Re: Spanish Visigoths - Is this line for real?
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:00:42 UT


When I asked about Clodoveo, 1st Christian K. of the Franks, I did not give
any references. The following was gathered from the files of Paul Theroff and
the works of Salazar y Castro (who can be suspect). I don't know the sources
of Paul Theroff's presentation but I wanted to see if there was any
similarity. While I don't have all my notes at my present location, this is
how I summarized the information:

Leovigildo, m. Teodosia
1 San Hermenegildo, m. Ingunda
1.1 Atanagildo, m. Flavia Juliana
1.1.1 Ardavasto, m. ???
1.1.1.1 Eruigio, m. Luibigtohona
1.1.1.1.1 Pedro, D. of Cantabria (from Salazar y Castro)
1.1.1.1.1.1 Alonso I (who married 2.1.1.2.1.1)
2 Recaredo, m. Chlodoswintha
2.1 Suintila, m. Teodora
2.1.1 Suintila II, m. ??? (may be a duplication of 2.1)
2.1.1.1 Zindasiundo, m. Riciberga
2.1.1.1.1 Theodofred, m. Recilona
2.1.1.1.1.1 Rodrigo, m.Egilona
2.1.1.2 Fafila, D. of Cantabria
2.1.1.2.1 Pelayo, m. Gaudiosa
2.1.1.2.1.1 Hermesindo m. Alonso I

Paul Theroff shows Fafila 2.1.1.2 to be the brother of Theodofred 2.1.1.1.1
This works better from a generational point of view if we figure that Rodrigo
and Pelayo were born about the same time.

The one area that really stood out was Salazar y Castro showing the parents of
Leovigildo to be Amalarico and Clotilde (d, of Clodoveo "Clovis") while
Theroff did not address that issue. If this can be accepted, it opens up
another line back from Clovis.

I know Salazar y Castro is suspect but he got a lot of it right (well, at
least some of it) , why not the first part?

John


----------
From: Medieval Genealogy Discussion List on behalf of Peter E. Murray
Sent: Monday, December 02, 1996 12:20 AM
To:
Subject: Spanish Visigoths - Is this line for real?

John de Celis (Gen-Medieval Newsgroup 17 Nov 1996 gives the
following relationships:

Clodoveo, 1st Christian K of Franks, father of:
Clothild (his dau) married Amalarico, parents of:
Leovigildo (their son), king of West Goths.

My comment here is that the marriage of Clovis' dau Clothild to
Amalaric king of the Visigoths, appears in Gregory of Tours and
presumably other sources as well. But neither that source nor any
other that I have seen mention any issue of the marriage.
Wolfram's book "The Goths" p480 n.605/6 cites Claude and agrees
with him in assuming that Amalaric was born c502. Amalaric married
after 526 to the daughter of Clovis (cites Zollner, "Franken" and
directs the reader also to Jordanes "Getica" and Martindale's
"Prosopography"). Then on p481 n.621 he cites Claude in saying
"After the death of Amalaric there existed in 531 'no legitimate
member of the family of Theodoric I (recte Theodorid)' ". As for
Leovigild (and his brother and predecessor Athanagild), there is no
indication of their parentage, other than indications in Gregory of
Tours that Frankish kings Sigibert's and Chilperic's marriages to
Brunhild and Galswinth respectively were considered very
prestigious matches for the Frankish kings, suggesting that the
Ancestry of Athanagild and Leovigild was noteworthy (and presumably
kingly). If Amalaric did have children, they would have been very
young when he died.

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