GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

From: Jim Stevens <>
Subject: Re: SAVOY
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:40:07 -0500

Jody A. Goad <> recently asked -

> Here is what I have on the Savoy line that are ancestors of mine.

(snip)

>Beatrice's father was Count Thomas of Savoy who died in 1233.

(multi-generational snip)

>Oddone's father was Count Humbert I who died in 1048. He was known as
>"Whitehands" and was the Count of Savoy and Belley by 1000 and Aosta and
>Maurienne by 1043. He was the father of both Oddone and Amadeus I.
>
>Any more information on this family is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks to the miracles of cut-and-paste technology I am probably sending
you much more than you ever wanted:

First, a brief listing of the line as far back as I have been able to trace it:

CORRECTIONS APPRECIATED !!!

a. CHILDEBRAND I, possibly a maternal half-brother of CHARLES MARTEL m.
ROLANDE, possibly of unspecified and Merovingian descent.

b. NIVELON I, COUNT OF AUTUN

c. CHILDEBRAND II, DUKE OF LOMBARDY m. DUNNE, dau. of THIERRY II, COUNT
OF AUTUN

d. THEODORIC I, DUKE OF BURGUNDY m. RICHILDA, dau. of BOSO, COUNT OF BURGUNDY

e. BOSO I, KING OF PROVENCE & ITALY Boson was Count of Vienne and
governor of Burgundy under the Carolingians. His wife, ERMENGARDE, felt
that as she was the daughter of an emporer, she ought to be married to more
than a mere count. Also, she considered herself as soverign of both Italy
and Burgundy in her own right. She persuaded Pope John VIII to crown Boson
king of Provence.
The years following the death of Boso's father-in-law, KING LOUIS II of
Italy without a male heir were a period of civil war between several rival
claimants to the throne. From 875 to 877, CHARLES THE BALD, King of
France, was nominally also King of Italy. Boso was his main
representative. Boso was an unsuccessful claimant in 879.

f. LOUIS THE BLIND, KING OF ITALY & PROVENCE He succeeded his father as
king of Provence. In 900, in the midst of a period of political
instability, the nobles of northwest Italy, led by ADALBERT, MARQUIS OF
IVREA, elected Louis as their king. He went to Rome, where he was also
crowned as Emporer. He lost his support and gave up the Italian throne to
BERENGER I of Friuli in 902. He tried again to take the throne in 905, but
BERENGER captured him and had him blinded.
In his book, "The Lost Kingdom of Burgundy", Christopher Cope says that
since he died with no sons, his successor was his regent, Hugh, Count of
Arles. Most sources, however, hold that CHARLES CONSTANTINE was LOUIS' son
as I've shown here.
The parentage of CHARLES CONSTANTINE has long been a matter of heated
discussion. Several months back, it was the subject of quite a long thread
on this newsgroup. From what I could tell, the most likely parents for
CHARLES CONSTANTINE are Louis the Blind and ANNA, dau. of the EASTERN ROMAN
EMPORER, LEO VI.

g. CHARLES CONSTANTINE m. TEUTEBERGE OF TROYES (parentage unk. -at least
to me)

g. HUMBERT I, COUNT OF BELLAY (d.975). Wife unk.

h. AMADEUS I, COUNT OF MAURIENNE & SAVOY (d.980). Wife unk.

Now follows the meat of the discussion on the HOUSE OF SAVOY :

the son of AMADUS I -

1. HUMBERT I COUNT OF MAURIENNE (abt.972 - 1 Jul 1042) was the founder of
the great House of Savoy. The "Dictionary of Royal Lineage" shows, as I've
done, his father as AMADEUS I. The LDS AF shows Gerald of Geneva as his
father and Ancelia Von Lenz as his mother. Christopher Cope, in his book,
"The Lost Kingdom of Burgundy", writes under the heading, 'The beginnings
of Savoy' : "The House of Savoy emerged into history with the title of
Counts of Maurienne around 1000. They gained Savoy and other territories
during the eleventh century. They prospered largely because, almost alone
of the Burgundian nobles, Count Hubert White Hands backed the German
conquerers against his own soverign, Rudolph III; and his son [sic. - even
his own genealogical tables show him as Humbert's grandson] AMADEUS II
accompanied the EMPORER HENRY III into Lombardy and became a good friend of
his so that when they parted HENRY gave him the city of Asti in memory of
the many jars of foaming wine they had emptied together. This happy
episode forged the link between the House of Savoy and Italy which was
broken only thirty-seven years ago [i.e. in 1948]." HUMBERT's wife was
named AUCILLA (parentage unk.)

2. OTTO (EUDES) COUNT OF SAVOY AND MAURIENNE ABT (1002 - 19 Jan
1057/1060) m. ADELAIDE, dau. of OLDERICO MANFREDI II, MARQUIS OF SUSA (d.
1035) and BERTHA, a descendant of the Marquises of Tuscany.

3. AMADEUS II, COUNT OF SAVOY (1032/49 - 26 Jan 1080). The LDS AF gives
his wife as JOAN, daughter of GEROLD, count of Geneva. The "Dictionary of
Royal Lineage" states that ADELAIDE, daughter of OTTO, Marquis of Ivrea,
was his wife. See his grandfather, HUMBERT I, for a biographical note.

Note: Any comments shedding light on the identity of
Amadeus II's wife would be greatly appreciated !

4. HUMBERT II, COUNT OF SAVOY (abt 1062 - 1102) m. GISLEA (abt 1060 -
1133), dau. of WILLIAM I, COUNT OF BURGUNDY (abt 1040 - 11 Nov 1087)

5. AMADEUS III, COUNT OF SAVOY (1088/94 - 1 Apr 1148/1149)followed the
Emporer Conrad III on the Second Crusade in 1147 and adopted the white
cross which the Savoyards wore on their shields thereafter and which is
still the emblem of the region. He m. MATILDA (d. aft Jan 1145), dau. of
GUIGES III OF ALBON.

6. HUMBERT III, COUNT OF SAVOY (1 Aug 1136 - 4 Mar 1188/1189) Quoting
from Christopher Cope's, "The Lost Kingdom of Burgundy" : "Humbert III, who
reigned from 1149 to 1189, . . . was a man of irresolute spirit who was
disconsolate at being born a prince and preferred the seclusion of a
monestery. He only renounced his chosen state of celibacy so as to give
his land an heir . . . " Two wives produced only a daughter. "Humbert
gave up and became a Carthusian monk . . . As the ancient chronicle
narrates, the barons, knights, and people of Savoy went to the abbot to beg
him to restore their count to them, but his marriage . . . again only
produced a daughter; Humbert was about to withdraw to the abbey of Aulps
when he was prevailed on to marry yet again, and his fourth wife [GERTUDE,
dau. of THIERRY, COUNT OF FLANDERS] gave him an heir who fortunately had
the kingly qualities which Humbert lacked."
Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." (133:36), however, has the third wife,
BEATRIX dau. of GIRARD, COUNT OF VIENNE/MACON (as THOMAS' mother.
On a close call, I have chosen to go with Weis.

Note: Any help on this issue would also be appreciated !

7. THOMAS, COUNT OF SAVOY (20 Mar 1177 - 20 Jan 1233). Quoting from
Christipher Cope's, "The Lost Kingdom of Burgundy" :
"The reign of HUMBERT's son, Count Thomas I (1189-1233), opened a golden
age for Savoy for he started the great advance north-westwards which
carried his successors' sway over the Rhone into Bresse and to the Saone
between Macon and Chalon. Even more significant was his victory over
Berthold V of Zahringen which cleared the way for the conquest by his son
Peter II (1263-8) of what is now the cantons of Vaud and Fribourg. Thomas
was also more successful than his father in reproducing his race for his
bride, MARGARET, daughter of the COUNT OF GENEVOIS, who raised eight sons
and six daughters. [Thomas m. MARGARET (abt 1180 - 8 Apr 1257), dau. of
WILLIAM I, COUNT OF GENEVA (1130 - 27 Jul 1195) and heiress of Faucigni.]
According to the chronicler of Hautecombe Abbey, the Westminster of Savoy,
MARGARET was being taken in 1196 to France by her ambitious father to
become the third wife of Richard Lionhart's enemy, PHILIP AUGUSTUS. Thomas
had fallen passionately in love with her and, ambushing her party in a
narrow gorge in Bugey, defied the KING OF FRANCE and carried her off to the
altar."
"From the time of Thomas I the counts were effectively rulers of a minor
kingdom and there were very few states of any size in which the central
power had so successfully established its authority."
Savoy's greatest days were under Thomas' sons, Peter and Philip. Savoy
prospered and even continued to expand from this time on into the sixteenth
century.

8a. AMADEUS IV, COUNT OF SAVOY (1197-24 Aug 1253) succeeded his father as
Count of Savoy upon his death in 1233 and ruled until his own death in
1253. There is little record of anything of note accomplished during his
tenure. His son, Bonifacio Roland succeeded him as count from 1253 to
1263, but little is said of his accomplishments either. The county then
went to Amadeus' brother, Peter II (1263-1268), who was known as "Little
Charlemagne", and then to the next brother, Philip (1268-1285). Peter
aggressively expanded Savoy's influence in the tradition of his father and
Philip was one of the most powerful rulers in Europe.
Amadeus IV m. MARGUARITE ANNE, dau. of HUGH III, DUKE OF BURGUNDY (1148
- 25 Oct 1192) and 7th generation descendent of HUGH CAPET.

8b. Amadeus IV had a sister - BEATRIX (abt 1201 - Dec 1266) who m. RAMON
BERENGUER V, COUNT OF PROVENCE (1195 - 19 Aug 1245). By Ramon's time
Provence had been at peace for two and a half centuries. There were few
lands that had enjoyed peace and prosperity with so little interruption.
Since the end of the tenth century Provence had grown more in population
and wealth than any other part of Europe.
Few men in history have been more successful in finding powerful and
influential mates for their daughters than Ramon. His four daughters
married two sets of brothers - all of them kings! Margaret married King
Louis IX of France; ELEANOR married KING HENRY III OF ENGLAND; Sanchia
married HENRY's brother, Richard of Cornwall, who was recognized for a time
as the German Emporer; and Beatrice, the youngest and his appointed heir,
married Louis' brother, Charles of Anjou, who at one time or another held
the titles King of Sicily and King of Jerusalem and was briefly master of
most of Italy and Greece. He was almost able to make an independent state
of Burgundy.
Ramon bequeathed to Beatrice an administrative machine to be rivaled
only by those created by the Normans in England and Sicily.

Thanx for hanging on. Hope this helps.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life ! () Jim

This thread:

• Re: SAVOY by Jim Stevens <>

  • Re: SAVOY by Stewart Baldwin <>