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From: Fred Tiedemann Croese <>
Subject: Re: St. Arnoul
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:14:07 +0200


wrote:
>
> (Rob Halvorson) wrote:
> >I have a question on the parentage of St. Arnoul. I have one source that
> >shows his father as Ausbert of Mosell and another which shows Bodogisel.
Are
> >these the same people or which is correct? Rob Halvorson
> >
> >Del Rio, TX
>
> The confusion is because various later medieval genealogies, and other
> sources give different accounts of his parentage. However 'Ausbert of
> Mosell' is an error even in these sources. One mid-9th century
> Carolingian genealogy (_Domus Carolingiae genealogia_ I think, MGH, SS
> II, p309 fl?) gives St.Arnulf's father as Arnoald/Arnald (fr Arnoul). The
> same source says Arnoald's father was Ansbert _ex genere senatorum_. So
> *Ansbert* was grandfather of St.Arnulf, not his father.
>
> Another genealogy, this time of the 12th century (Genealogy of 1164,
> MGH, SS I5, p381-4), also has Arnoald as father of St.Arnulf, but
> furnishes more (unlikely) details. In this Arnulf's wife is named as Doda
> daughter of Vibecis Count of Boulogne, and his mother is called Oda,
> daughter of Gunzo duke of Suabia (this was followed by Meurisse in his
> Histoire des eveques de Metz, I, 85, and so has passed into some older
> secondary works).
>
> Finally a third source of the 17th century (Dominicy 1648, SS 13, 248),
> gives the father of St.Arnulf as Buotgisus.
>
> I think most reputable scholars have chosen to believe that Arnoald was
> the father of St.Arnulf (eg the article on the saint in the Dictionnaire
> de le geographie et l'histoire de l'eglise, vol III), but I think the
> earliest biography of him (_Vita_), which written in either the late 7th
> or early eighth, does not give his parents, but only says he came from a
> noble family. Hence the need to find him suitable ancestors. However
> there was a historical Arnoald who was Bishop of Metz a decade before
> Arnulf (612/3-27/9) was bishop, and it seems that this is currently
> the accepted version.
>
> hope this helpsHave a look at:

Http://edge.edge.net/~gumby/genweb/Winch/Winch.html

At this site I found information about the ancestry of Saint Arnoul Of Metz
which is also a link between
Carolingians and Merovingians.

If this information is correct, there is a direct male descendance from Clodion
le Chevelu or Clodius Long
Haired (Father of the namegiving Merovee of the Merovingians) to the
Carolingians (Saint Arnoul of Metz).

Clodius Long Haired (b.395)
| m. Basina (b.398)
|
+----------------+---------------+
| |
| |
Adelbert (b.486) Merovee (b.415)
| | m. Verica (b.419)
| |
Wambert (b.511) Childeric I (b.436)
| | m. Basina (b.438-440)
| |
Ausbert (b.536) Clovis I (b.496)
| m. Berthe of Kent=========+ | m. Clotilde (b.475)
| | |
Arnoldus Of Saxony (b.562) | Clotaire I (b.497)
| m. Oda (b.562) | | m. Ingonde (b.499-502)
| | |
Saint Arnoul of Metz (b.582) | Charibert I (b.520)
| | | m. Ingoberge (b.520)
| | |
Ansegise +==Berthe of Kent (b.541)

Very interesting is'nt it? B U T ...

Adelbert was born 91 years after his father (and also 38 years after his
fathers death) and 88 years after his
mother. I think we miss at least 3 generations here.

Clotaire I was born 1 year after his father Clovis I. This is caused by a
typing error; Clovis I was born in
466 and not in 496.

--
Fred Tiedemann Croese

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