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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1996-07 > 0836331957


From: Jared Olar <>
Subject: Re: Sven Estridssons ancestors
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 13:25:57 -0500
In-Reply-To: <4r6gqp$2er4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>


On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 wrote:

> In <>, Anders Berg <> writes:
> >However, I don't see anything from Florence that would refute a
> >Scandinavian "Ursus". So why do we see (e.g. in the commentary to my
> >Adam translation) Ulf Spraklingsson being called "like Godwin an Anglo-Saxon"
> >as if it was a proven fact?
>
> In "Cnut..." M K Lawson writes that Florence has Ulf as a Dane. He also
> writes that there is little evidence that Ulf was an English Earl, in
> Thorney Abbeys "Liber Vitae" Ulf is simply called the brother of Eglaf.
>
> >Relevant in this discussion are also the kids of Godwin and Gyda (sister
> >of Ulf Spraklingsson). If both parents were Anglo-Saxon, why were half of
> >the children christened with Scandinavian names?
> >
> Yes, Godwin's four oldest sons are all given Scandinavian names:
> Svein, Harald, Tostig and Gyrth. Two two first are probably of
> political reasons named after Svein "forkbeard" and Harald "bluetooth"
> but what about the other two? Tosti is a hypocorism for Thorstein and
> Gyrth is probably a short form of Guthfrith, but who were they?
> What about Godwin's other children? Snorri has in "Heimskringla"
> a "Valtjof" ("Valtjuv" in a Swedish tranlation). Names ending
> with "-tjof" are most probably Islandic or maybe Norweigan.
>
> Snorri also mentions sons of Ragnvald jarl named "Ulfr" and "Eilif"
> as you pointed out earlier. (Ulf and Elaf would be proper names
> in Swedish (Old East Norse) of that period. However, Snorri has taken
> a lot of artistic freedom here, among other thing he moved Ragnar
> who in Sigvats "austrafararvisur" is located at the Baltic See to
> Skara, so I wouldn't trust him to much in this matter! It is
> however interesting that Ragnvald and Ulf are mentioned
> by Sigvat, who was among the Norweigans that negotiated
> with Olaf Eriksson on Olaf Haraldssons behalf. From Sigvats
> "austrafararvisur" it is not clear that Ulf is Ragnvalds son, but
> in Sigvats "Erlingsflokkr" it is mentioned that Erling Skjalgssons
> sister marries Ragnvald, father of Ulf. Ulf has also an unnamed
> broder that gives Olof Haraldsson his help. It is
> Snorri that names this brother "Eilif" (called Eglaf by Lawson!)
>
> This subject has been discussed by historians and M.K Lawson gives
> extensive references here. An interesting name is P.H. Sawyer who
> recently has published in both English and Swedish on this matter.
>
> Ulf
>
I had earlier stated that I was previously unaware of Jarl Ulf
Sprakaleggsson having a brother named Eglaf--and then I noticed on Anna
Taute's wallchart "Kings and Queens of Great Britain" that Jarl Ulf
supposedly had a brother named EILAF. (So much for my memory.)

Just for convenience, here are quotes from HEIMSKRINGLA in which Ulf and
Eilif, sons of Rognvald Ulfsson, appear:

First, in the negotiations for the marriage of Olaf Skotkonung's daughter
Ingigerd and the Russian king Jarizleif (Yaroslav), we find Ingigerd
supposedly saying:

"It is MY KINSMAN, Jarl Rognvald Ulfsson."

(Elsewhere in Icelandic saga lore, we read that Rognvald's father Ulf was
supposedly the brother of Sigrid, mother of Olaf Skotkonung.)

A little later we read of Rognvald living in Russia for a while, and
while there he had two sons:

"The sons of Jarl Rognvald and Ingibjorg were Jarls Ulf and Eilif."

Afterwards we find this:

"King Jarizleif made Harald [Hardradi] and his followers welcome. Harald
became chieftain of the men charged with the defence of the country, as
did Eilif, the son of Jarl Rognvald."

But later Eilif returned to Scandinavia:

"And when King Sigurd [Jorsalafar] came to Slesvik in Denmark, Jarl Eilif
entertained him splendidly."

Jared Olar

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