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From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: Viking Dublin
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 01:56:40 GMT


In a previous article, (Tom Bjornstad) says:

>On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:13:00 EST, Jim Stevens <>
>wrote:
>
>> I ran accross another couple possibilities in my research.
>>
>> "Colonial and Revolutionary Lineages in America" shows him as the son of
>> an unnamed daughter of Ivar, the son of Ragnar Lodbrok. His father is
>> given as "The Earl of the Hebrides".
>>

This is the version supplied by Searle, and followed by Turton and others.
I have not yet bothered to track down Searle's source.

>I will fully agree upon that Ragnar Lodbrok never has been the father
>of Ivar "the Boneless". Ivar, who died in 873, most likely was either
>the brother or half brother of Olav "the White" who also died in 873,
>tough some earlier.
>

I think this should be modified to say that Ivar of Dublin is likely
brother of Olav od Dublin (with the caveat that Irish and English sources
occasionally refer to vikings campaigning together as brothers, even when
other evidence suggests otherwise). That Olav of Dublin was O the White
has been questioned, as has the identity of the three Ivars, Boneless,
Dublin, and York.

>The story tells that Olav was the one that concurred Dublin (852) to
>become King. However he went back (871) to Norway to help his father
>in a fight which both died in (873). Ivar took over (871) as King
>when his brother(?) left for Norway.
>
>Probably were their father Ragnvald Olavsson "Heidumhair" ("the
>Honorable"), maybe a son of Olav Godredson "Geirstad-alv".
>

But if I recall correctly, the same Irish source that refers to Olav's
return to Lachlann (Norway) also names his father as Godfrey, or something
of the sort. What is the source for Ragnevald being their father? I have
seen one author who suggested that Olav of Dublin was none other than
Gerstad-alf himself.

>According to my information Ragnar Lodbrok died in 865, the same year
>as Halvdan "the Black" died. Halvdan ruled most of the east par of
>Norway at that time and was likely to be a much younger half brother
>of Olav "Geirstad-alv".
>

What is the source for Halfdan's date of death? I know of no substantiated
link between the Norwegian royals of the sagas and the surviving
contemporary (datable) documentation prior to Erik Bloodaxe. Attempts have
been made to identify Godfred, King of Denmark ca. 812 with Guddred the
Magnificaent, but I see little reason for this other than the similarity of
the names. If so, then the chronology of the earlier kings is very much in
question.

>To my knowledge there is no evidence of Ragnar Lodbrok ruling in
>Norway (which however not yet had come together as country at all) at
>all. If he ever did this must have been in a very small part of
>"Viken" and for a very short period too.
>

To my knowledge, there is no evidence of Ragnar Lodbrok ruling at all.

Todd

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