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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-11 > 0815480483


From: rcs <>
Subject: Re: Descent from Hugues "l'Abbe"
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 10:21:23 +0000
In-Reply-To: <v02120d00acbfa3b3ed49@[136.152.71.59]>


On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Alan B. Wilson wrote:

> The descent from Charlemagne through Hugues "l'Abbe"
> appears in Turton, The Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 6. [Turton
> cites Louis de Mas Latrie, Tresor le chronologie, 1889]. It
> also is outlined in Michel Call's Pedigree Chart No. 502 and
> Family Group Sheet No. 935. Call cites Turton and Collett's
> collection of unpublished pedigree charts.

but which Hugues l'abbe?:

There are

Hugues abbot of St.Bertin, d.844, illeg son of Charlemagne

and

Hugues abbot of St.Germaine d'Auxerre ets, d.886, son of Count Conrad
of Auxerre.

No scholarly work credits them with any known children (cf K.Werner
Die Nachkommen die Karls des GroBen, Karl die GroB, vol IV, 1965,
ed. W.Braunfels et al, which is the most authoritative source on
the subject: throw away those coffee table compendiums :-)

Seriously, judging from just recent posts on this group, it seems
there is almost no end to fictitious ancestories for, and lines of
descent from, Charlemagne. The Carolingians themselves
seem to have sponsured quite a few in the ninth century, seeking
to prove their descent from the Merovingians, as well as 5th
century Roman prefects: these are all bogus (if you want to find out
what relationship may have existed between the two dynasties, check
E.Hlawitchka, on the ancestors of Charlemagne, also in Karl die GroB,
vol 1). Some years ago I also remember reading an article by a German
scholar who even questioned the validity of their link with St.Arnulf.
But there seem quite a few mentioned recently in this group which look
as if they have been constructed using later romances of the 12-13th
centuries. Many of the 19th and early 20th century compendiums tended
to be very uncritical of the sources they used, hence all their
funky little charts and trees tend to err on the immaginative side.

cheers

rcs

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