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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1995-10 > 0813108397


From: Edward J Schoenfeld <>
Subject: Re: LATIN translation
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 23:26:37 +0000


In article <951002$155641$>, Paul Mackenzie
<> wrote:

> Could anyone help with the translation of the following. I obtained this from
> Feudal Aids Vol 1 (1284-86)
>
> "Hogo de Curtenay tenet manerium de COLYTON cum medetate hundredi de
COLYTON de
> regi in capti pro unus feodi militia....
> Thomas de Saunford tenet manerium de WHYTEFORD cum membris, et medietatem
> hundredi de COLITON, de heredibus Alice Byset per sericum unius uncie de
serico
> per annum, et iidem heredes illud debent de rege in capita"
>
> Also can you recommend a Latin English Dictionary. I brought one, but it
turned
> out to be absolutely useless.
>
> Regards Paul

The reason that your Latin disctionary turned out to be useless is that
Latin is a highly inflected language -- that means words change form to
indicate specific meaning. For example, in your Feudal Aids reference,
"tenet" means "he holds": "we hold" is "Tenemus", "he held" (perfect
tense, literally he has held) is "tenuit". Since each noun has six
different forms (ist, 2nd, and 3rd person, each in singular and plural)
and verbs can have 70+ (3 persons, 2 number, 6 tenses, 2 moods -indicative
and subjunctive- plus odd forms for participles , infinitives,
imperatives, etc.) NO Latin dictionary lists all the forms. You look up
nouns by using the first person singular, verbs with the first person
singular present indicative (I hold = tenuo).

What this means is that you need to know latin grammar (at least noun
declensions and verb conjugations) to use any dictionary. A better method
is to take a 2-year college Latin course (I have known some people, *not
me* to work through this in about one year of intensive work with a
coach). Several Latin courses can be used on your own-- Wheelock is
always popular, and the Oxford Latin course can be done solo as well.
There is also a 'programmed learning' series by someone named Sweet, but
that didn't do the job for me (It might work for you).

Once you have done that, you still have to face the fact that Latin as
written in the 1200's is a far cry from latin written in classical rome
(which is what all the courses teach) In your selection, the words
'manerium', 'hundredi', and 'feodi' were all added to the language long
after the days of Caesar. Also, some of the words are used 'wrong' -- the
latin language simply had changed from its classical form. So to
understand medieval\ Latin you also need a specialized medieval latin word
list (this is in addition to, not in place of, the dictionary and the
classical grammar) There is one put out for England by a guy named
Lapham, and one for continental usage by Jakob Niermeyer. You should be
able to get at these in any good university library.

Since all of this is a little much if all you need to do is translate four
lines :), here goes my try (3 years classical, 5 years medieval, but
*disclaimer* I don't do England after 1100 as a professional):

Hogo de Curtenay holds the estate (manerium probably = manor) of Colyton
with half the "hundredi" (=hundred, an administrative district in
anglo-Saxon times, what it means here I can't say for sure, possibly de
Curtenay collects the taxes from the peasants in the old hundredi
district) from the king "in capti" (probably means de Curtenay is tenant
in chief, i.e. there's nobody between him and the king for this holding)
for the fee (feodi, nom. sing. = feodum, this is the woord that gives us
'fief' and 'feudal') of one 'militia' (I *guess* this is a corruption of
the word 'miles', usually translated as knight but meaning just soldier in
the period I work in. The change in the word may arise from the fact that
Hogo probably didn't actually sent a soldier or knight to help the king,
but sent money instead. 'unus' = of one should really be 'unius' here,
the clerks - or possibly everyone in England ;) -- has forgotten how to
work that declension).

Thomas of Saunford holds the manerium (see above) of Whytford with its
annexes and half the hundredi (see above) of Colyton from the heirs of
Alice Bysset for one ounce of sericum (literally 'chineses stuff',
probably silk) per year, and those same heirs owe that to the king in
capita (see above).

Hope this helps. If you are contemplating doing serious research in the
middle ages, Learn tha Latin. (learn the Latin anyway, doing so improves
your ability in English 1000%).

Ed Schoenfeld

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