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From: Todd A. Farmerie< >
Subject: Re: SO! Just who WERE Rollo's parents?. . . etc.
Date: 2 Jul 1995 19:05:10 GMT


Having re-read the appropriate parts of Heimskringla and Orkneyinga Saga,
and confirmed what I said in the previous post about them, as well as
having consulted Stuart, Moriarty, Winkhaus, Turton, Moncreiffe, and some
periodical sources, I will now return the the idle speculation that is
viking prehistoric genealogy.

In a previous article, (that's me) says:

>
>In a previous article, (Tom Camfield) says:
>
>>From my own charts, a brief ahnentafel would be in the following form:
>>
>>1. Rollo (or however one wants to modify the name).
>>
>>2. Ragnvald the Wise, (ca. 820-890), Morejarl.
>>3. Ragnhild Rolvsdatter.
>>
>>4. Oystein Glumra ("the Noisy"), Morejarl, b. 788
>>5. (Ascrida?) Ragnvaldsdatter
>
>I do not think #5 and her parentage comes from the sagas mentioned above.
>I know it was in Stuart, but that and 50 cents will buy you a Coke(TM). I
>have not looked into his source for this statement, but in the discussions
>that I have seen relating to the royal families of Norway and Denmark, no
>such person as her father is even mentioned.
>

That the wife of Eystein Glumra was daughter of Ragnvald is not from either
Heimskringka nor Orkneyinga saga. It appears in Stuart and also in Turton,
both citing Munch (which I do not have). As to who this Ragnvald is, see
below.

>>6. Rolv Nevja/Rolf Nevra
>>

This is from both Heim & Ork.

>>8. Ivar Opllendingjarl Halvdansson, b. 756
>
>following Orkneyinga saga
>
>>10. Ragnvald Gudrodsson, b. Agder
>>11. Tora Sigurdsdatter
>
>I know of no source for Ragn. Gudrodsson. I have to call this entire
>pedigree into question at this point. This may be the result of one of the
>infamous attempts to provide every hero with a line from Ragnar Lodbrok.
>

Your line, whatever its source, seems to have changed a generation, and
this was the cause of my earlier confusion. The Ragnvald who appears in
both Stuart and Turton is King Ragnvald Olafson, the grandson of Gudrod
(#40), and the last monarch mentioned in Inglingatal. His father Olaf
Geirstad-alf has been identified by some as Olaf the White of Dublin.
As to the wife, Heimskringla does not mention any family relations of
Ragnvald except his father, and neither do Stuart or Turton (and so
presumably, neither does Munch). Your line seems to be stressing Agder
as an important location for the line, and this does not come from any of
the sources that I mentioned, so I suspect that this marriage is from
your Agder source, whatever that may be. I suspect the Ragnar Lodbrok
descent it is just pedigree decoration.

>>
>>16. Halvdan the Old, b. 724
>
>Moncreffe makes him the same as Halfdan hvitbien (below), while Orkneyinga
>saga provides a more fabulous descent to an early colonizer of Norway.
>However, I have seen a discussion that suggests that `Halfdan the Old' is
>another pedigree decoration, appearing at the head of several unrelated
>families at different times in history.
>

My mistake. It is not Halfdan hvitbein that is provided by Moncreiffe, but
his grandson Halfdan the Stingy, son of Eystein the Fart (Tom's favorite, I
know). More on these two Halfdans below.

>>20. Gudrod II of Agder
>>22. Sigurd Orm-i-Oye ("Snake/Worm in Eye")
>>
>
>Again, I don't know the source for this information, and question it.

There is no such Gudrod II mentioned in Inglingatal, nor any other source I
have access to. This would again be from your Agder source. (I seem to
recall seeing an odd line such as this in ES, but didn't copy it at the
time. This may be the source, or at lest use a common source, but since
Stuart usually takes ES as gospel, I would have expected him to use this
line if it was in ES.)

>
>>40. Gudrod Halvdansson (son of Halvdan Hvitbein/"Whiteleg" or "Whitebone"
>
>Likely a historical king of Norway. I personally follow some more recent
>scandinavian authors in rejecting Haworth's (and probably others')
>identification as the Danish king Godfried of Frankish annals, who died ca.
>812. (which identification is even followed by the latest Ancestral Roots,
>Moriarty, Moncreffe, and others).

If Olaf the White is the same as Olaf Gersted-alf, then an Irish source (of
questionable quality) has his father still alive in 870. It is unlikely
(almost impossible) that both identifications could be true (that Olaf
the White was son of Godfried of Denmark).

As to which Halfdan is father of Gudrod, there are two possible
interpretations. The Heimskringla says something like Halfdan hvitbein,
son of Olaf, had Eystein and Gudrod. (Eystein biography.) Eystein had
Halfdan the Stingy. (Halfdan biography.) Gudrod, son of Halfdan ruled next.
The question is, is his father Halfdan the Stingy, mentioned immediately
prior to the mention of King Gudrod, or is this the same Gudrod, son of
Halfdan mentioned a few pages earlier as son of Halfdan hvitbein. Haworth
proposed the latter about the turn of the century (I do not know if this
represents his original work or was based on earlier sources), and is
followed by Moriarty and many other modern authors relying on Haworth.
Moncreiffe prefers the more traditional interpretation that Gudrod was son
of Halfdan Eysteinson. Stuart doesn't understand the argument, and
presents one while saying that the other may well be right. For a while I
leaned toward the Haworth interpretation, but have cooled on it somewhat,
and am largely undecided.

Todd

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