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From: Claire Keenan Agthe <>
Subject: Re: [APG] APG Digest, Vol 3, Issue 140--Soda vs Pop
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:22:28 -0500
References: <d10.1e9025c6.34f48dd7@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <d10.1e9025c6.34f48dd7@aol.com>


On Feb 25, 2008, at 4:32 PM, wrote:

> In a message dated 2/25/2008 3:54:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
>
>>
>> "great" part would only come into the picture if someone asked you to
>> define how someone was related.
>>
>> As for that "non-southerners who call coke 'pop'," that's kind of
>> like Southerners who call all Northerners Yankees -- an
>>
> I can only laugh when I read this as a North South thing--which to
> some
> degree it is. We had a friend who moved to Florida from
> Boston. ... they
> had about 15 cases of "soda" and no coke, pepsi, etc.
> Needless to say there was a second trip to the store and a better
> understanding of what a northerner meant when he said "soda"
> Doug Burnett
> Satellite Beach
> Fl


Hi Doug,

You've just proven my point about geographic overgeneralization. As
Nora said, the Bostonian would have said "tonic," not "soda." The
Southerner apparently assumed this was a "Northern" thing, when in
fact, it's a Boston (or maybe New England) thing. When I first moved
to Boston, "tonic" took a lot of getting used to (hearing, that is).
When I was growing up, we had what you're calling "soda" (ascribing
it to Northern usage) in the house maybe three times I can think of,
so I can't swear to what one "regularly" called it -- seltzer or club
soda or soda water? (Though I think there were distinctions --
doesn't one have salt or something? And maybe only my grandmother's
generation said soda water?? It's pretty fuzzy -- no pun intended).
"Tonic" outside of New England I only ever heard in a G+T, or in an
historical piece about flim-flam artists / snake-oil salesman who
sold "tonics" (a completely different animal) to cure all kinds of
medical ills. Well, and in the old-fashioned "You're such a tonic!"
compliment.

I've lived in and visited enough areas I avoid the problem by just
asking for Coke -- and let the waiter tell me, basically, "no Coke,
Pepsi." (with a nod to John Belushi ;-) ). Besides, I like the idea
of making Coke's trademark lawyers twist in agony at the generic use
of their trademark!

Speaking of Bostonisms, when I (from Phila. area) lived in Boston, I
had a friend who was from Portland (Oregon) who told me the biggest
adjustment she had to make is that, in Boston, if you order a
"regular" coffee, it comes with milk and sugar in it. She thought
this was an East Coast thing. Even though I don't drink coffee, I
know that's a Boston (or New England) thing. In Phila. and New York,
at least, "regular" coffee means, depending on context, 1) not large
or small, but regular a/k/a medium, 2) not decaf, 3) more recently,
without all the fancy additions of today's coffee bars (latte, mocha,
etc. -- as in, "don't you just have regular coffee!!?"). Just
recently, I stopped at one of those relatively-fast food rest stops
on the NJ Turnpike and was stuck in back of a man berating the poor
girl behind the counter because there was no milk and sugar in his
"regular" coffee. She, puzzled, kept explaining that milk and sugar
were on the condiments bar, and he just kept yelling that he'd order
it "regular." I assume he was from New England and she'd never
been. Two people divided by a common language, indeed -- it's not
just British and American English that varies! Or Northern and
Southern usage.

Of course, "regular" to mean plain, ordinary coffee doesn't work if
you're talking to an Italian (by which, of course, I mean an Italian-
American, I don't know from Italy!). Then, you have to beware of the
different meaning of "black" coffee -- to non-Italians, it means no
milk or sugar, but to Italians means espresso -- and be aware that
what you consider "regular" (plain, normal, everyday) coffee is, to
the Italian, "brown" or "American" coffee. Thankfully, since I don't
drink the stuff, I don't have to wrestle with the complexities of
coffee lingo. Now, don't get me started on tea -- though, let me
just say, Southerners really do tea right -- real, brewed iced tea in
the summer (not the horrible mix so many Northern restaurants use)
and an understanding that putting the sugar in while it's steeping
makes it taste (and melt) so much better than adding it after it's
cold. My favorite thing about my first trip through the South was
being able to rely on getting good tea everywhere we ate. What a
pleasant change of pace!

To get back to the genealogical content -- I think knowing different
regional / ethnic / generational usages (and misattributions) really
helps you understand the life and times of your family, not to
mention helps you correctly interpret the documents you find.

Now, to get another cuppa and get back to work...

Claire

Claire Keenan Agthe

See you
16 March 2008 - Irish genealogy conference, Genealogical Society of
Pennsylvania
3-6 Sept. 2008 - FGS conference, Philadelphia

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