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Archiver > APG > 2004-01 > 1073842556


From: Mary Jane Smith <>
Subject: [APG] Re: APG-D Digest V04 #8
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:40:39 -0500
In-Reply-To: <200401110400.i0B406gk003569@lists2.rootsweb.com>


Thanks, Donn. I see that once again, I am still " underinformed." So much
to learn! I will check out the site you referenced. I suppose my next
question is: if the terrms are already defined, or self-evident, and the
data modeling is already done, how can the model be applied to the
problem under discussion, i.e., Jerry's original idea? Or, does it apply?

Mary Jane

At 09:00 PM 1/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>APG-D Digest Volume 04 : Issue 8
>
>Today's Topics:
> #1 [APG] Re: Name Registry? []
> #2 [APG] GenTech [Jan Davenport
> <]
> #3 [APG] Baptismal Date vs. Birth Dat ["Nancy Coleman"
> <.]
> #4 Re: [APG] Baptismal Date vs. Birth [Ray Beere Johnson II
> <]
>
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>______________________________X-Message: #1
>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 22:57:10 EST
>From:
>To:
>Message-ID: <>
>Subject: [APG] Re: Name Registry?
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Mary Jane:
>
>The GENTECH Lexicon Working Group did the data modeling and defined the term
>"persona." See http://www.gentech.org/gdm/
>
>I think Jerry was proposing "hypothetical person" as an easily understood
>working equivalent, for purposes of the registry at least, that wouldn't need
>explanation each time it was used.
>
>Donn Devine
>
>Mary Jane smith wrote:
>
> > Jerry and Donn -- Any way you two can get together and do some data
> > analysis? It sounds to this old data analyst that you need first to
>define
> > your terms; i.e., who or what is a "persona?", a "hypothetical?" and so
> > forth, and then do some data modeling. (No, I am not volunteering,
> but it
> > does sound like a good idea.) As one trying to sort various John Smiths
>in
> > Virginia, I will be interested to hear your results.
>
>______________________________X-Message: #2
>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:24:56 -0600
>From: Jan Davenport <>
>To:
>Message-Id: <>
>Subject: [APG] GenTech
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>We are still in need of volunteers for the booth at Gen Tech. Many
>Thanks, Jan D.
>
>
>
>Friday January 23rd
>10:am- 11:30am
>11:30am - 1:00pm
>1:00pm - 2:30pm
>2:30pm - 4:00pm
>4:00pm - 5:00pm
>4:30pm - 6:00 pm
>Saturday January 4th,
>8:30am - 10:00am
>10:00am-11:30am
>11:30am - 1:00pm
>1:00pm - 2:30 pm
>2:30pm- 4:00 pm
>
>______________________________
>
>X-Message: #3
>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:50:46 -0500
>From: "Nancy Coleman" <>
>To:
>Message-ID: <004601c3d799$ea7bdce0$>
>Subject: [APG] Baptismal Date vs. Birth Date, New Orleans, LA
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="Windows-1252"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Hope to get some clear advice... This may be an obvious and stupid
>question, but here goes.
>
>In doing very preliminary research (have just started this branch) in New
>Orleans records and with censuses, I have found a pattern of
>discrepancies. I have civil birth records with one date of birth and then
>further records (1900 census for instance) where the year may be the same
>(or not) but the month is completely different. The family(ies) involved
>are Catholic and of a mix of Irish, Spanish, and French heritage.
>
>I can understand the year being off, that's not unusual if they lied about
>their age. I find that all the time in NYC records. But, why would they
>change the month of birth? Was it common practice to cite one's baptismal
>date as a date of birth instead of the actual date of birth? This seems
>to be the rule, not the exception with many branches of this family. Not
>just one or two people, but dozens and dozens. Male and female. All seem
>to cite a date of birth as being several months, if not years, after the
>actual civil record. The month rarely matches up. Common sense tells me
>they may be citing their baptismal date... ???
>
>The time period is the last quarter of the 19th century, New Orleans,
>Catholic. The family names are very unusual and all civil birth records
>cite the proper parents, including the correct maiden names of the
>mothers. All alternate spellings or possible misspellings have been
>checked. All death records have also been searched to check for possible
>second children by the same name due to a death of the first child by that
>name. Nothing.
>
>If this is common practice, I'd sure like to know as it will make looking
>for the church records that much easier! I haven't started that phase
>yet. It will also help me cite the various dates and sources with a
>better understanding of their accuracy and whether the discrepancies mean
>anything (significant) or not. Since I'm just starting this branch of the
>family I would certainly like to get off on the right foot and gain an
>understanding of any peccadilloes that I may encounter in LA records. :)
>
>Best regards. Nancy.
>Nancy Coleman
>
>http://www.genealogyPro.com/ncoleman.html
>
>______________________________X-Message: #4
>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:40:44 -0800 (PST)
>From: Ray Beere Johnson II <>
>To:
>Message-ID: <>
>Subject: Re: [APG] Baptismal Date vs. Birth Date, New Orleans, LA
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Nancy;
> I had to deal with a family like this; my
>wife's. Read on for details.
> > Hope to get some clear advice... This may be
> > an obvious and stupid question, but here goes.
>
>Neither obvious nor stupid from where I stand; I
>still don't have any explanation for the way one
>particular family behaved. There were a few
>similarities to your family.
>
> > with censuses, I have found a pattern of
> > discrepancies. I have civil birth records with
> > one date of birth and then further records
> > (1900 census for instance) where the year may
> > be the same (or not) but the month is
> > completely different. The family(ies) involved
> > are Catholic and of a mix of Irish, Spanish,
> > and French heritage.
> >
> > I can understand the year being off, that's not
> > unusual if they lied about their age. I find
> > that all the time in NYC records. But, why
> > would they change the month of birth? Was it
>
> The family I was concerned with was
>Catholic, and was French-Canadian, Irish, and
>Native American. From at least 1880 through the
>1920s, few records for this family agreed on
>anything! I have never personally worked on
>another family like it. I personally checked the
>original birth records, and noted the dates
>given. These were NOT the same dates the family
>celebrated as their birthdays, according to the
>one family member still living. He was dying of
>cancer, and not able to provide an explanation of
>why this was so. The dates listed by the Social
>Security Administration for births of ALL
>deceased members of this family did not match the
>dates in the original birth records. I don't
>think the dates matched those of baptism in the
>Catholic Church either, although I didn't check
>this out thoroughly so cannot say for certain.
>What I did note in this family was a disregard
>for details, and a lack of concern with official
>records. First names were "loose" also (Beatrice
>was called "Bernice", Frances was called
>"Francine", etc.). I assumed they just didn't
>care about the details, but can't prove that
>assumption, obviously.
> I can readily understand why the problem
>drives you crazy. I still cannot locate the death
>of one family member with a common name, as I
>have no idea what date of birth to look under in
>the SSDI; someday I will have to check out each
>of about a hundred and fifty possible matches...
> Ray
>
>
>=====
>Ray Beere Johnson II - Genealogist
>279 East Central Street, Suite 259
>P. O. Box 95
>Franklin, Massachusetts 02038
>
>
>FAX: 508-541-6788
>
>__________________________________
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Mary Jane Frances Smith,
Pres., NCAC/APG;
Independent Writer/Editor
<>



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