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Rootsweb.com RSS Feed for GSV http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GSV Rootsweb.com RSS feed for GSV en-us Copyright 2005 by MyFamily.inc 2008-08-20T18:36:01-06:00 helpdesk@rootsweb.com helpdesk@rootsweb.com Rootsweb.com 2005-05-01T00:00:00-06:00 1 hourly Re: [GSV] Women and Property http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219278961 Barbara Re: women owning land and its transfer to later husbands I did a university subject on wills and can probably dig out the notes from it if required, but in an assignment I made the following statements: "...None of the women were able to will any share of the family home or property. However, the Married Women’s Property Act and subsequent legislation allowed for the disposition of their separate property, even in cases of their intestacy." As far as I can remember the Married Women's Property Act came into effect in about 1880 (perhaps 1882/3?), prior to that there was a similar act but it related more to wages earnt by the woman, as when she married any property she held automatically transferred to her husband (as they were considered as one by the law). This also meant that property left by a previous husband passed to a new husband (which often meant weird and wonderful clauses in wills trying to avoid later husbands controlling the property and disinheriting children of the first marriage). These were British laws and applied in Australia but local governments enacted similar laws. I have a man who died in 1873 in Victoria and the wife remarried in 1875 and retained control of the property - but his will stated that she was to retain control if she remarried (she left the property in her will in 1917, with an allowance for the second husband until his death - as he had no property!) Not sure if this was an exception though. Some references that may be in your local library (the first 2 are probably the most use) Holcombe, Lee, Wives and Property: Reform of the Married Women’s Property Law in Nineteenth-Century England, Martin Robertson, Oxford, 1983. SA government, www.samemory.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=673 Aldous, Jules and Venneri, Sandra, Legal briefs series, Wills and Inheritance, VCTA Publishing, Melbourne, 1993. Grannum, Karen and Taylor, Nigel, Wills and Other Probate Records, The National Archives, Richmond, England, 2004. Hugo, Graeme, “The Changing Way of Death in Australia”, Australia’s Changing Population: Trends and Implications, Oxford University Press, Melbourne, 1986, pp 18-41. Thompson, E. P., “The Grid of Inheritance: A Comment”, in Jack Goody, Joan Thirsk and E. P. Thompson (eds), Family and Inheritance: Rural Society in Western Europe, 1200-1800, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1976, pp 328-360. regards Jenny ---- Hello Everyone, Perhaps someone can answer this one for me. Upon her husband dying the wife was left their family property by will, the property( which had their family home on it) consisted of a several acres, six months later she remarried and the property was transfered to the second husband with half an acre of that land being transferred back to her son from the first marriage. This relates to a Victorian property & was in 1872. The family were working class people. What was the law regarding widows owning property and a remarriage. Did English law apply and if so what was the law at that time. Hoping for some help with this one, Barbara Roberts ____________________________________________________________________ eKit - the global phonecard with more! Spend less on overseas calls, receive messages worldwide. Visit http://www.ekit.com/ for details. jenny_kisler@ekit.com 2008-08-20T18:36:01-06:00 [GSV] quarries - perhaps this is of interest http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219277909 http://www.unimelb.edu.au/infoserv/lee/htm/carlton_street.htm Heather McKay Adult Information Services Officer North Melbourne Library 66 Errol Street North Melbourne 3051 heather.mckay@melbourne.vic.gov.au 96589702 |=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-| IMPORTANT: This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may contain copyright material of the City of Melbourne or third parties. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, copying or use of the information is strictly prohibited. Please check this e-mail for undetected viruses before opening. the City of Melbourne's liability for the transmission of viruses is limited to the re-supply of the e-mail and any attachments or to the costs of such re-supply. The City of Melbourne's policy expressly forbids the dissemination of offensive or inappropriate material by e-mail. If you receive this e-mail in error or in breach of these conditions, please advise the City of Melbourne by e-mail to enquiries@melbourne.vic.gov.au or by telephone on +61 3 9658 9658, then delete the e-mail immediately. "Heather McKay" <Heather.McKay@melbourne.vic.gov.au> 2008-08-20T18:18:29-06:00 Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219277806 I recall the set of booklets produced on Carlton some years ago were by the "Carlton Forest Project" because of the forest and quarry in Carlton prior to development. I am not at my usual place at the moment so can't check the actual book, but I think it must be "Carlton's early beginnings". The series is called "Among the terraces". Heather McKay Adult Information Services Officer North Melbourne Library 66 Errol Street North Melbourne 3051 heather.mckay@melbourne.vic.gov.au 96589702 -----Original Message----- From: gsv-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gsv-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Van Cooten Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 6:10 PM To: gsv@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne Hi Martin, > I have been doing some quite extensive study on land sales and > purchasers in the Melbourne region during the period 1837 to 1859. I > have a record describing "Quarry allotments near Melbourne". They > were > located in the County of Bourke, Parish of Jika Jika, Section F. I > have found a record where some 20 lots each of one acre were offered > for sale. My question is: Where is Section F, Jika Jika? I have not > been able to clarify this at the Registrar General's Office library or > at PROV so far. The particular allotment I am interested in is No. > 10. > Can anyone help? I have done a quick search on the Landata site at <https:// www.landata.vic.gov.au/tpc/>. Properties with Allotment 10, Section F, Jika Jika appear in Fiztgibbon St, Parkville, or Rae St, Fitzroy North. Regards, Rod GSV THURSDAY TALKS: Our weekly Thursday Talk Program is held at the GSV from 12.30pm to 1.30pm: - 21 August - Researching Western Australian ancestors; 28 August - Genealogical gems from the Melbourne Library Services; 4 September - Mining in early South Australia - more than gold?; 11 September - Twenty fantastic Records Not Used at PROV - Putting flesh on the family skeletons!; 18 September - Researching convict ancestry; 25 September - Using FamilySearch; 2 October - Using Ancestry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GSV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message |=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|-|=|=|=|-|=|=|=|-| IMPORTANT: This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and may contain copyright material of the City of Melbourne or third parties. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, copying or use of the information is strictly prohibited. Please check this e-mail for undetected viruses before opening. the City of Melbourne's liability for the transmission of viruses is limited to the re-supply of the e-mail and any attachments or to the costs of such re-supply. The City of Melbourne's policy expressly forbids the dissemination of offensive or inappropriate material by e-mail. If you receive this e-mail in error or in breach of these conditions, please advise the City of Melbourne by e-mail to enquiries@melbourne.vic.gov.au or by telephone on +61 3 9658 9658, then delete the e-mail immediately. "Heather McKay" <Heather.McKay@melbourne.vic.gov.au> 2008-08-20T18:16:46-06:00 Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219276115 Dear Phoebe, Lenore, Rodney, and others off-line, Many thanks for your ideas. I will certainly be following up all those suggestions, and trying to find out more about 1850 quarrying in Melbourne, Thanks a lot Martin Martin Playne <mplayne@netspace.net.au> 2008-08-20T17:48:35-06:00 [GSV] Pigsty Gully Bendigo http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219273258 Hello I wonder if anyone knows the locality of Pigsty Gully in the Bendigo area ? Any ideas much appreciated. Thanks Alison Armstrong alisona@netspace.net.au "Alison Armstrong" <alisona@netspace.net.au> 2008-08-20T17:00:58-06:00 Re: [GSV] Women owning land & law re the land & remarriage http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219211784 Hello Barbara, The wording of the will gives the clue... some husbands left property to their wives but stipulated that if they married the property reverted to children. This controlled the property even if she remarried. It was usually controlled by the executor or the appointed trustees. Some widows were left property for their sole use and, if they were prudent, drew up a contract with two or more trustees to control the property before they agreed to the second marriage. Some would stipulate that the husband had the use of the property until the new wife's death, when the trustees would, if the mother stipulated it, transfer it to the son/children. Only a study of the family and the will of the first husband would show this. And if the land was part of a pre-nuptial contract held by trustees, then it would not appear in a later will as it would be controlled by the contract and the trustees, obviating the need for a will. "The law" gave everything held by the wife (Land, property, money, jewellery, etc) to the husband UNLESS a pre-nuptial agreement (or a stipulation in the first husband's will) controlled the wife's / widow's estate. But, in 1870 the "Married Women's Property Act "34 Victoria # 384 on 29 Dec 1870 became law. Effectively this said that married women (as long as the property was willed to them or acquired with their own money ... and not from savings from housekeeping or gifts from the husband) could own real estate as if they were a "femme sole"..i.e. a single adult woman. She could hold, acquire, alienate, demise or devise such real estate in her own name. AND if she was married after this date, all her real estate was protected from the debts of her husband. BUT if she was already married (pre 29 Dec 1870) then any settlements and covenants applied to the property would still apply, regardless of the act. The Act would however apply only to real estate acquired after the Act's passing She could make savings from her own earnings for the first time. Money earned by her own industry, for the first time, were hers and not her husband's. Money deposited in a savings bank had to be her own earnings, and NOT savings from money given to her by her husband (to buy clothes, household expenses) . There are instances where husbands took out all the money from a savings account because they claimed "a proportion was saved from housekeeping". After this Act, a woman could own shares... but not if it was proved they were bought to cover a husband's defalcations or commitments. For the first time a husband was not responsible for the debts of his wife BEFORE the marriage, and now SHE could be sued as a "femme sole" for these debts. For the first time the husband was not liable for damages by deeds committed by his wife, TO THE EXTENT OF HER OWN PROPERTY. There were lots of other new rights for married women. The Act should be read by those interested in family history...plus the later "Deceased Wife's sister marriage act 17 Dec 1872 "and other Acts to 1889 on Married Women's Property Rights. Debates in Parliament in the interim are an education on the devious attempts of husbands to circumvent the new law (both houses of parliament!). It's all a bit complicated for a time. Hope that's of some help. Regards Ada Ackerly Barbara Roberts wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Perhaps someone can answer this one for me. > > Upon her husband dying the wife was left their family property by will, the property( which had their family home on it) consisted of a several acres, six months later she remarried and the property was transfered to the second husband with half an acre of that land being transferred back to her son from the first marriage. > > This relates to a Victorian property & was in 1872. > The family were working class people. > > What was the law regarding widows owning property and a remarriage. > > Did English law apply and if so what was the law at that time. > > > Hoping for some help with this one, > > > Barbara Roberts > GSV THURSDAY TALKS: Our weekly Thursday Talk Program is held at the GSV from 12.30pm to 1.30pm: - 21 August - Researching Western Australian ancestors; 28 August - Genealogical gems from the Melbourne Library Services; 4 September - Mining in early South Australia - more than gold?; 11 September - Twenty fantastic Records Not Used at PROV - Putting flesh on the family skeletons!; 18 September - Researching convict ancestry; 25 September - Using FamilySearch; 2 October - Using Ancestry > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GSV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Ada Ackerly <aackers@alphalink.com.au> 2008-08-19T23:56:24-06:00 Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219219821 Hi Martin, > I have been doing some quite extensive study on land sales and > purchasers in the Melbourne region during the period 1837 to 1859. I > have a record describing "Quarry allotments near Melbourne". They > were > located in the County of Bourke, Parish of Jika Jika, Section F. I > have found a record where some 20 lots each of one acre were offered > for sale. My question is: Where is Section F, Jika Jika? I have not > been able to clarify this at the Registrar General's Office library or > at PROV so far. The particular allotment I am interested in is No. > 10. > Can anyone help? I have done a quick search on the Landata site at <https:// www.landata.vic.gov.au/tpc/>. Properties with Allotment 10, Section F, Jika Jika appear in Fiztgibbon St, Parkville, or Rae St, Fitzroy North. Regards, Rod Rodney Van Cooten <rodney@vc.id.au> 2008-08-20T02:10:21-06:00 Re: [GSV] Women owning land & law re the land & remarriage http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219219384 > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:40:24 +1000 > From: "Barbara Roberts" <sauvarin@alphalink.com.au> > Subject: [GSV] Women owning land & law re the land & remarriage <snip> > This relates to a Victorian property & was in 1872. > The family were working class people. > > What was the law regarding widows owning property and a remarriage. > > Did English law apply and if so what was the law at that time. > Barbara Roberts Hi Barbara, British Law applied in Victoria unless superseded by a local law. In Victoria the 'Married Woman's Property Act' was enacted in 1882. Prior to that a widow's and her property were adjudged to belong to the new husband - but this could be varied by marriage settlements and the like, and the provisions of the husband's or father's will. A Will could specify that a certain sum of money or land was for the personal use of a female relative. I'm not expert on this, but you could do a bit of a google on it, or look in some history books to get more detail. Best wishes, Lenore _________________________________________________________________ Shout your Messenger buddies to the movies http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/compIntro.aspx?compId=4590 Lenore Frost <lenore10@hotmail.com> 2008-08-20T02:03:04-06:00 Re: [GSV] Women owning land & law re the land & remarriage http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219219220 Barbara Roberts . Up to 1882 when a women married the husband was the owner of her assetts but in 1882 we have the Women`s liberation act which stated women could own properties--own shares and have bank account plus able to say no to her husband . Unfortunately in general use this did not apply until the 1940`s and even in the 1980`s a married woman could not get a bank loan without her husbands OK . Thank GOD we now live in an equal status life . I go back to the lesson my father drummed into me "Men and Women are different but you treat them both with the same respect . Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Roberts To: GSV-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: [GSV] Women owning land & law re the land & remarriage Hello Everyone, Perhaps someone can answer this one for me. Upon her husband dying the wife was left their family property by will, the property( which had their family home on it) consisted of a several acres, six months later she remarried and the property was transfered to the second husband with half an acre of that land being transferred back to her son from the first marriage. This relates to a Victorian property & was in 1872. The family were working class people. What was the law regarding widows owning property and a remarriage. Did English law apply and if so what was the law at that time. Hoping for some help with this one, Barbara Roberts GSV THURSDAY TALKS: Our weekly Thursday Talk Program is held at the GSV from 12.30pm to 1.30pm: - 21 August - Researching Western Australian ancestors; 28 August - Genealogical gems from the Melbourne Library Services; 4 September - Mining in early South Australia - more than gold?; 11 September - Twenty fantastic Records Not Used at PROV - Putting flesh on the family skeletons!; 18 September - Researching convict ancestry; 25 September - Using FamilySearch; 2 October - Using Ancestry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GSV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.5/1620 - Release Date: 19/08/2008 6:04 AM "Laurie Thompson" <lt030329@bigpond.net.au> 2008-08-20T02:00:20-06:00 Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219218883 > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:35:32 +1000 > From: Martin Playne <mplayne@netspace.net.au> > Subject: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne <snip> >My question is: Where is Section F, Jika Jika? I have not > been able to clarify this at the Registrar General's Office library or > at PROV so far. The particular allotment I am interested in is No. 10. > Martin Hi Martin, If in doubt, ask a librarian. I reckon any of the larger libraries in the Parish of Jika Jika would have a parish map, I would ring or email and ask your question, and allow a bit of time for them to get the map out. Local libraries do this sort of thing a lot quicker than the big ones, where you have to make an appointment, etc, etc. Make sure you get onto the Reference Librarian, and ring during the week, not on the weekend. Best wishes, Lenore _________________________________________________________________ Are you paid what you're worth? Find out: SEEK Salary Centre http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fcareer%2Dresources%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Asc%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_salary&_m=EXT Lenore Frost <lenore10@hotmail.com> 2008-08-20T01:54:43-06:00 Re: [GSV] Where were the Quarry allotments in Melbourne http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GSV/2008-08/1219207643 Hello, Martin. The Titles Office should be able to solve this one, though there may perhaps be a search fee. Jika Jika is basically Northcote, parts of which were quarried until fairly recently. If you have access to a library, try Lemon, Andrew. "The Northcote Side of the River" (North Melbourne: Hargreen, 1983). If you have a name to search for I can look at Lemon for you, but really the whole book is well worth reading - especially if you have family in the area - and there are many references in it to quarrying and brickmaking. Phoebe Phoebe <fcutting@alphalink.com.au> 2008-08-19T22:47:23-06:00