Rootsweb.com RSS Feed for BISSETT

Rootsweb.com RSS Feed for BISSETT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/BISSETT Rootsweb.com RSS feed for BISSETT en-us Copyright 2005 by MyFamily.inc 2008-07-23T04:39:03-06:00 helpdesk@rootsweb.com helpdesk@rootsweb.com Rootsweb.com 2005-05-01T00:00:00-06:00 1 hourly Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1216809543 Hi Nancy, Can you give some details of your Bisset(t) line and perhaps some of us on the list can assist you. There are many people here with detailed North American Bissett trees and I have a over 1300 NE Scotland Bissets in my tree, with others having trees most notably in Australia & New Zealand. So perhaps between us we can break through a brick wall of yours. Regards, -- Alexander Bisset IT Administrator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. >>> On 05/07/2008 at 15:38, in message <BAY105-W49D4A93ABF2E9B3FAB098BB69A0@phx.gbl>, Nancy Rushton <nancykrushton@hotmail.com> wrote: I find it more of an American INsensitivity than anything, Bruce. When it comes to building a family tree, there are many relationship issues that do not seem to be accepted. Yours would be one. I am a bastard Bissett to some since my mother was a Bissett, but I was born out of wedlock and relinquished for adoption at birth. I have been amazed at the negative responses I've received when trying to build my birth family tree - as though my genetic make-up was inconsequential. Congratulations to you and your partner on an amazing longevity. You must be doing something right! Nancy Douglas (whose line of Bissetts seem to not exist anywhere!) > From: bisse@msn.com.au> To: bissett@rootsweb.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 23:20:55 +1000> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled> > > Another question concerning the faithful recording of Family trees can we> now include our long term spouses ( in my case over 35 years with Ian> Boswell) of the same sex as legitimate partners or are we ruled on this by> American sensitivity and the Australian Labor (can't even spell it) party?> Regards> Bruce> > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_072008 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.dionach.com ______________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.dionach.com "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> 2008-07-23T04:39:03-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Thanage http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215350504 Hello Bruce, The Thanage of Fermartyn is well known. However, while much is factual and correct, it still remains for the First Walter of Lessendrum and several others, to be proven beyond doubt. There are researchers who have proved that the First Walter of Lessendrum was not the same as Walter of Aboyne and even the Thanage uses a lot of "probably" , because at that time at least three Walter Bissets were known. In much the same way history does not record which Henricus Bisset was the original Henricus who took his family to Scotland. There being two Henricus Bissets living in England, both were Barons, but only one went to Scotland. The Bisset family in England since about 1066 have far more Nobility in their ranks than is the case in Scotland. There are scholars not interested in rootsweb pages, who are working on Bisset history and we await their work to be published. These works will have academic significance, because of the scholarly background. Most work today was not factually based and like Scott and Tranter et Al, used historical fact loosely to make interesting reading. The Thanage by Temple is no doubt a fair and reasonable account, but should be questioned for accuracy. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: [BISSETT] Thanage > Peter you may be interested in this link > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rowerowe/Thanage.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of pmanuel > Sent: Saturday, 5 July 2008 11:48 PM > To: bissett@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > Hello Bruce, > > Thane = A person holding land as a sort of gift for military service and > ranking somewhere between a freeman and a baron. > > Would not, for example, qualify for a seat in The House of Lords, which is > for Barons and above and thus not one carrying the title of Noble. > > Use of the word Thane is almost extinct and perhaps only found in ancient > historical writing. The present owner of Lessendrum is not a Thane, > though > > previous owners have been Thanes. > > However, yes - there is no reason why Thane could not apply today > providing > the qualifying conditions were met. > > Peter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> > To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:08 PM > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > >> Thane.. still is >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On >> Behalf Of pmanuel >> Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 12:18 AM >> To: bissett@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled >> >> Hello Alexander, >> >> Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried >> to >> form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. >> >> You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different >> things. >> >> For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen >> Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did >> not >> become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, >> or >> able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are >> nevertheless still "family" (proven). >> >> I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back >> to >> Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. >> >> Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It >> was >> a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat >> of > >> a >> >> large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A >> Knight >> ? or a Baron? >> >> Peter >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> >> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled >> >> >>> Actually that typifies why I dislike the pre 1500s discussions. Someone >>> can confidently say "No Connection" when in reality there is really >>> almost >> >>> no documentation to go on, so there is no real proof that there isn't a >>> connection via 4th, 5th, 6th son of Bisset, Biset, Byset etc at some >>> distant point in the past. No KNOWN connection would be a better >>> comment. >>> >>> Thats why its just as wrong to say that Lessendrum line male line died >>> out. If you go back far enough and if there were records to prove it I >>> hazard a guess that a 4th, 5th or 6th son at some point gave rise to >>> another completely different line of Bissets that became much more >>> humble >>> farmers & "ag. labs." than the "main line" of descent. Just there is no >>> proof of such a line and so legally no valid claim. Thus only for that >>> reason can one say the male line "died out". >>> >>> In fact I wouldn't be surprised if almost all NE Scotland Bissets and >>> their descendants today are not in some way related. The very big point >>> however is it was only the "main line" ie: first sons the heir, >>> occassionally the 2nd son the "spare", that was really of interest pre >>> 1500s and so only really those records relating largely to property or >>> armies/wars ever made it onto paper. The other sons down the tree were >>> of >>> no great interest. >>> >>> Yet it would be foolish to assume that these "lesser" sons never married >>> nor had children. Of course they did, we just have no written record of >>> it >> >>> to prove it. From these "lesser" sons springs the variety of Bisset >>> branches we have, with NE Scotland roots, spanning the globe today. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> -- >>> Alexander Bisset >>> IT Administrator >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand >>> binary and those who don't. >>> >>>>>> On 02/07/2008 at 15:05, in message >>>>>> <004001c8dc4c$b164fd30$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: >>> Hello Bruce, >>> >>> >>> Simple answer. >>> >>> No connection. >>> Peter >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> >>> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled >>> >>> >>> What about Lessendrum and Antrim? >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using >>> MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >>> http://www.dionach.com >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message "pmanuel" <pmanuel@bigpond.com> 2008-07-06T07:21:44-06:00 [BISSETT] Thanage http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215328405 Peter you may be interested in this link http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rowerowe/Thanage.htm -----Original Message----- From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of pmanuel Sent: Saturday, 5 July 2008 11:48 PM To: bissett@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled Hello Bruce, Thane = A person holding land as a sort of gift for military service and ranking somewhere between a freeman and a baron. Would not, for example, qualify for a seat in The House of Lords, which is for Barons and above and thus not one carrying the title of Noble. Use of the word Thane is almost extinct and perhaps only found in ancient historical writing. The present owner of Lessendrum is not a Thane, though previous owners have been Thanes. However, yes - there is no reason why Thane could not apply today providing the qualifying conditions were met. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > Thane.. still is > > -----Original Message----- > From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of pmanuel > Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 12:18 AM > To: bissett@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > Hello Alexander, > > Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried > to > form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. > > You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different > things. > > For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen > Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did > not > become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, or > able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are > nevertheless still "family" (proven). > > I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back > to > Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. > > Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It > was > a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat of > a > > large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A > Knight > ? or a Baron? > > Peter > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> > To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:45 AM > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > >> Actually that typifies why I dislike the pre 1500s discussions. Someone >> can confidently say "No Connection" when in reality there is really >> almost > >> no documentation to go on, so there is no real proof that there isn't a >> connection via 4th, 5th, 6th son of Bisset, Biset, Byset etc at some >> distant point in the past. No KNOWN connection would be a better comment. >> >> Thats why its just as wrong to say that Lessendrum line male line died >> out. If you go back far enough and if there were records to prove it I >> hazard a guess that a 4th, 5th or 6th son at some point gave rise to >> another completely different line of Bissets that became much more humble >> farmers & "ag. labs." than the "main line" of descent. Just there is no >> proof of such a line and so legally no valid claim. Thus only for that >> reason can one say the male line "died out". >> >> In fact I wouldn't be surprised if almost all NE Scotland Bissets and >> their descendants today are not in some way related. The very big point >> however is it was only the "main line" ie: first sons the heir, >> occassionally the 2nd son the "spare", that was really of interest pre >> 1500s and so only really those records relating largely to property or >> armies/wars ever made it onto paper. The other sons down the tree were of >> no great interest. >> >> Yet it would be foolish to assume that these "lesser" sons never married >> nor had children. Of course they did, we just have no written record of >> it > >> to prove it. From these "lesser" sons springs the variety of Bisset >> branches we have, with NE Scotland roots, spanning the globe today. >> >> Regards, >> >> -- >> Alexander Bisset >> IT Administrator >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand >> binary and those who don't. >> >>>>> On 02/07/2008 at 15:05, in message >>>>> <004001c8dc4c$b164fd30$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: >> Hello Bruce, >> >> >> Simple answer. >> >> No connection. >> Peter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> >> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled >> >> >> What about Lessendrum and Antrim? >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using >> MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >> http://www.dionach.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> 2008-07-06T01:13:25-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215328223 Thanks Nancy, There are a lot of bastards, acknowledged and not in our families... somewhere along the way my Grandfateher miraculously lost a sister or an Aunt called Barbara -----Original Message----- From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Rushton Sent: Sunday, 6 July 2008 12:38 AM To: bissett@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled I find it more of an American INsensitivity than anything, Bruce. When it comes to building a family tree, there are many relationship issues that do not seem to be accepted. Yours would be one. I am a bastard Bissett to some since my mother was a Bissett, but I was born out of wedlock and relinquished for adoption at birth. I have been amazed at the negative responses I've received when trying to build my birth family tree - as though my genetic make-up was inconsequential. Congratulations to you and your partner on an amazing longevity. You must be doing something right! Nancy Douglas (whose line of Bissetts seem to not exist anywhere!) > From: bisse@msn.com.au> To: bissett@rootsweb.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 23:20:55 +1000> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled> > > Another question concerning the faithful recording of Family trees can we> now include our long term spouses ( in my case over 35 years with Ian> Boswell) of the same sex as legitimate partners or are we ruled on this by> American sensitivity and the Australian Labor (can't even spell it) party?> Regards> Bruce> > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL _messenger_072008 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> 2008-07-06T01:10:23-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215320064 Hello Nancy, I would like to support you, but no more nor no less because of your unfortunate circumstance of birth. Non of us can pick our parents. Therefore to me we are all similar. Fortunately if you know your father and mother (married or not), their parentage should be easily traced through Birth certificates. Census details and migration and shipping records will also help. As for American insensitivity, I do not feel you can only single out Americans, problems caused by religious bigotry and in particular from those people claiming to be Christians, are to be deplored. It is a World Wide tragedy and sadly involves most religions. Religion is a man made and has caused more Wars and social problems than anything else. I have long held the view that religion is based on fear and ignorance for support. The Westminster system of Government tries to invoke a Separation of Powers separating Church from State, but fails because of weak politicians fearing a loss of votes if they enforce this Separation of Power, or are seen to go against a religious point of view. Forgive me, perhaps this is not the place for such a debate. If I can help with your research or even as a sympathetic friend, please do not hesitate to contact me. pmanuel@bigpond.net.au I have lived in Australia since 1959, but was born and educated in UK. Age has caught up with me and my wife (a Bissett) . We are now 82 and must be fast approaching the end of the road. Best wishes Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Rushton" <nancykrushton@hotmail.com> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > I find it more of an American INsensitivity than anything, Bruce. When it > comes to building a family tree, there are many relationship issues that > do not seem to be accepted. Yours would be one. I am a bastard Bissett > to some since my mother was a Bissett, but I was born out of wedlock and > relinquished for adoption at birth. I have been amazed at the negative > responses I've received when trying to build my birth family tree - as > though my genetic make-up was inconsequential. > > Congratulations to you and your partner on an amazing longevity. You must > be doing something right! > > Nancy Douglas (whose line of Bissetts seem to not exist anywhere!) > >> From: bisse@msn.com.au> To: bissett@rootsweb.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 >> 23:20:55 +1000> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled> > > Another question >> concerning the faithful recording of Family trees can we> now include our >> long term spouses ( in my case over 35 years with Ian> Boswell) of the >> same sex as legitimate partners or are we ruled on this by> American >> sensitivity and the Australian Labor (can't even spell it) party?> >> Regards> Bruce> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_072008 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > "pmanuel" <pmanuel@bigpond.com> 2008-07-05T22:54:24-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215268694 I find it more of an American INsensitivity than anything, Bruce. When it comes to building a family tree, there are many relationship issues that do not seem to be accepted. Yours would be one. I am a bastard Bissett to some since my mother was a Bissett, but I was born out of wedlock and relinquished for adoption at birth. I have been amazed at the negative responses I've received when trying to build my birth family tree - as though my genetic make-up was inconsequential. Congratulations to you and your partner on an amazing longevity. You must be doing something right! Nancy Douglas (whose line of Bissetts seem to not exist anywhere!) > From: bisse@msn.com.au> To: bissett@rootsweb.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 23:20:55 +1000> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled> > > Another question concerning the faithful recording of Family trees can we> now include our long term spouses ( in my case over 35 years with Ian> Boswell) of the same sex as legitimate partners or are we ruled on this by> American sensitivity and the Australian Labor (can't even spell it) party?> Regards> Bruce> > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_072008 Nancy Rushton <nancykrushton@hotmail.com> 2008-07-05T08:38:14-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215265684 Hello Bruce, Thane = A person holding land as a sort of gift for military service and ranking somewhere between a freeman and a baron. Would not, for example, qualify for a seat in The House of Lords, which is for Barons and above and thus not one carrying the title of Noble. Use of the word Thane is almost extinct and perhaps only found in ancient historical writing. The present owner of Lessendrum is not a Thane, though previous owners have been Thanes. However, yes - there is no reason why Thane could not apply today providing the qualifying conditions were met. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > Thane.. still is > > -----Original Message----- > From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of pmanuel > Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 12:18 AM > To: bissett@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > Hello Alexander, > > Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried > to > form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. > > You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different > things. > > For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen > Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did > not > become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, or > able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are > nevertheless still "family" (proven). > > I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back > to > Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. > > Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It > was > a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat of > a > > large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A > Knight > ? or a Baron? > > Peter > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> > To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:45 AM > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > >> Actually that typifies why I dislike the pre 1500s discussions. Someone >> can confidently say "No Connection" when in reality there is really >> almost > >> no documentation to go on, so there is no real proof that there isn't a >> connection via 4th, 5th, 6th son of Bisset, Biset, Byset etc at some >> distant point in the past. No KNOWN connection would be a better comment. >> >> Thats why its just as wrong to say that Lessendrum line male line died >> out. If you go back far enough and if there were records to prove it I >> hazard a guess that a 4th, 5th or 6th son at some point gave rise to >> another completely different line of Bissets that became much more humble >> farmers & "ag. labs." than the "main line" of descent. Just there is no >> proof of such a line and so legally no valid claim. Thus only for that >> reason can one say the male line "died out". >> >> In fact I wouldn't be surprised if almost all NE Scotland Bissets and >> their descendants today are not in some way related. The very big point >> however is it was only the "main line" ie: first sons the heir, >> occassionally the 2nd son the "spare", that was really of interest pre >> 1500s and so only really those records relating largely to property or >> armies/wars ever made it onto paper. The other sons down the tree were of >> no great interest. >> >> Yet it would be foolish to assume that these "lesser" sons never married >> nor had children. Of course they did, we just have no written record of >> it > >> to prove it. From these "lesser" sons springs the variety of Bisset >> branches we have, with NE Scotland roots, spanning the globe today. >> >> Regards, >> >> -- >> Alexander Bisset >> IT Administrator >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand >> binary and those who don't. >> >>>>> On 02/07/2008 at 15:05, in message >>>>> <004001c8dc4c$b164fd30$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: >> Hello Bruce, >> >> >> Simple answer. >> >> No connection. >> Peter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> >> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled >> >> >> What about Lessendrum and Antrim? >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using >> MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >> http://www.dionach.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message "pmanuel" <pmanuel@bigpond.com> 2008-07-05T07:48:04-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215264055 Hello Peter and Alex I liked your discussion of the second son, Alex, and all of the other sons. I think that Lessendrum depicts an almost mythical continuity of a family "place". Look how long the Bissets of Lessendrum held title to the property in it's various guises... It's a delightful(for me colonial fantasy) to think that many Bisset(t)s had very humdrum lives but that some changed the course of history in the "Home" countries as well as the countries we now inhabit. As Sydney is shortly to be overrun be Catholic (God help us) youth, it is also interesting to see how cleverly manipulative it was of one of our more illustrious forbears to separate Scotland from England using the Pope to achieve that purpose. We can take heart in out immediate family, but we learn about a type of history by pursuing and speculating about our forbears. Another question concerning the faithful recording of Family trees can we now include our long term spouses ( in my case over 35 years with Ian Boswell) of the same sex as legitimate partners or are we ruled on this by American sensitivity and the Australian Labor (can't even spell it) party? Regards Bruce -----Original Message----- From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of pmanuel Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 11:54 PM To: bissett@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled Hello Alexander, Debret is full of mistakes. My own father's listing is incorrect and his issue are missing. Failure to prove something does not invalidate a null hypothesis? You can not expect me to believe that. This is not a forum for the hypothetical case, because anything that can not be proved is a waste of time. Why involve a 2nd son, when history proves that the line of descent carried through until the present day. Assuming Mrs Mordent Bisset, a very old lady and last Bisset owner of Lessendrum, is still alive. The lineage of the second son has not been proved, like all other possible connections to Lessendrum. What makes ancestry connections harder to trace is that very often workers on an Estate adopted the name of the Estate owner eg:- Thomas of Bisset and this became a surname with absolutely no blood line to a Bisset family, unless it was the wrong side of the blanket. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > Hmm not strictly true with Victoria's lot you will find them all listed in > Debrets, which does maintain but does not regularly publish lists of > succesion as by the time you get to 10th let alone 50th, 100th, 1000th in > line to the throne it really doesnt matter and would is no doubt a pain to > keep current in any case. > > Failure to prove something does not invalidate a null hypothesis. Thus the > hypothesis that there is a connection between two families is simply not > disproven. The fact that almost no records exist and so the case cannot be > proved is in essence my point. We simply have insufficient reliable data > to prove OR disprove most theories of lineage that far back in time. Thus > making the whole discussion somewhat pointless unless of course some new > documentation were to come to light. In depth scholarly discussion of the > existing documentation is well outside the scope of this mailing list and > of limited benefit to most as we are utterly unable to make a meaningful > contribution to the debate as we lack the basic tools to make such a > contribution. > > Re: all being related, well perhaps although you assume a christian faith > if you suggest a link to the fictional Adam. One could even argue on > evolutionary grounds we are all related to the trees themselves, however > either route, religious or evolutionary, takes the discussion way way > beyond the bounds of the purpose of this mailing list. > > As regards Lessendrum, my own guess is that whilst there are some, and I > would contend most come from outside Scotland, who are fixated with > Lessendrum, the vast majority of researchers are far more interested in > finding out who their great great grandfathers parents were, and what they > did for a living. > > The one Lessendrum connection that would be interesting to tie up is who > the "2nd Son of Lessendrum" is that is the father of William Bisset who > married Margaret Lamb. I am sure that many people on this list will have > seen the Bisset Family Tree drawn up in 1851 by the Bissets who ended up > at Artannes, Inverurie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. The "2nd Son of > Lessendrum" is the name that heads this tree, however I've never seen any > link to say who that actually was and indeed who his brother the 1st son > was. As this would tie up a very large branch of Bissets to the Lessendrum > tree. > > Regards, > > -- > Alexander Bisset > IT Administrator > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand > binary and those who don't. > >>>> On 03/07/2008 at 15:17, in message >>>> <001101c8dd17$9c8be7e0$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello Alexander, > > Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried > to > form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. > > You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different > things. > > For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen > Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did > not > become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, or > able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are > nevertheless still "family" (proven). > > I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back > to > Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. > > Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It > was > a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat of > a > large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A > Knight > ? or a Baron? > > Peter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using > MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit > http://www.dionach.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> 2008-07-05T07:20:55-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215263317 Thane.. still is -----Original Message----- From: bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:bissett-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of pmanuel Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 12:18 AM To: bissett@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled Hello Alexander, Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried to form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different things. For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did not become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, or able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are nevertheless still "family" (proven). I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back to Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It was a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat of a large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A Knight ? or a Baron? Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > Actually that typifies why I dislike the pre 1500s discussions. Someone > can confidently say "No Connection" when in reality there is really almost > no documentation to go on, so there is no real proof that there isn't a > connection via 4th, 5th, 6th son of Bisset, Biset, Byset etc at some > distant point in the past. No KNOWN connection would be a better comment. > > Thats why its just as wrong to say that Lessendrum line male line died > out. If you go back far enough and if there were records to prove it I > hazard a guess that a 4th, 5th or 6th son at some point gave rise to > another completely different line of Bissets that became much more humble > farmers & "ag. labs." than the "main line" of descent. Just there is no > proof of such a line and so legally no valid claim. Thus only for that > reason can one say the male line "died out". > > In fact I wouldn't be surprised if almost all NE Scotland Bissets and > their descendants today are not in some way related. The very big point > however is it was only the "main line" ie: first sons the heir, > occassionally the 2nd son the "spare", that was really of interest pre > 1500s and so only really those records relating largely to property or > armies/wars ever made it onto paper. The other sons down the tree were of > no great interest. > > Yet it would be foolish to assume that these "lesser" sons never married > nor had children. Of course they did, we just have no written record of it > to prove it. From these "lesser" sons springs the variety of Bisset > branches we have, with NE Scotland roots, spanning the globe today. > > Regards, > > -- > Alexander Bisset > IT Administrator > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand > binary and those who don't. > >>>> On 02/07/2008 at 15:05, in message >>>> <004001c8dc4c$b164fd30$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello Bruce, > > > Simple answer. > > No connection. > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> > To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:54 PM > Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > > > What about Lessendrum and Antrim? > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using > MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit > http://www.dionach.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "Bruce Bissett" <bisse@msn.com.au> 2008-07-05T07:08:37-06:00 Re: [BISSETT] Somerled http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BISSETT/2008-07/1215179654 Hello Alexander, Debret is full of mistakes. My own father's listing is incorrect and his issue are missing. Failure to prove something does not invalidate a null hypothesis? You can not expect me to believe that. This is not a forum for the hypothetical case, because anything that can not be proved is a waste of time. Why involve a 2nd son, when history proves that the line of descent carried through until the present day. Assuming Mrs Mordent Bisset, a very old lady and last Bisset owner of Lessendrum, is still alive. The lineage of the second son has not been proved, like all other possible connections to Lessendrum. What makes ancestry connections harder to trace is that very often workers on an Estate adopted the name of the Estate owner eg:- Thomas of Bisset and this became a surname with absolutely no blood line to a Bisset family, unless it was the wrong side of the blanket. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Bisset" <A-Bisset@aberdeen-harbour.co.uk> To: <bissett@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [BISSETT] Somerled > Hmm not strictly true with Victoria's lot you will find them all listed in > Debrets, which does maintain but does not regularly publish lists of > succesion as by the time you get to 10th let alone 50th, 100th, 1000th in > line to the throne it really doesnt matter and would is no doubt a pain to > keep current in any case. > > Failure to prove something does not invalidate a null hypothesis. Thus the > hypothesis that there is a connection between two families is simply not > disproven. The fact that almost no records exist and so the case cannot be > proved is in essence my point. We simply have insufficient reliable data > to prove OR disprove most theories of lineage that far back in time. Thus > making the whole discussion somewhat pointless unless of course some new > documentation were to come to light. In depth scholarly discussion of the > existing documentation is well outside the scope of this mailing list and > of limited benefit to most as we are utterly unable to make a meaningful > contribution to the debate as we lack the basic tools to make such a > contribution. > > Re: all being related, well perhaps although you assume a christian faith > if you suggest a link to the fictional Adam. One could even argue on > evolutionary grounds we are all related to the trees themselves, however > either route, religious or evolutionary, takes the discussion way way > beyond the bounds of the purpose of this mailing list. > > As regards Lessendrum, my own guess is that whilst there are some, and I > would contend most come from outside Scotland, who are fixated with > Lessendrum, the vast majority of researchers are far more interested in > finding out who their great great grandfathers parents were, and what they > did for a living. > > The one Lessendrum connection that would be interesting to tie up is who > the "2nd Son of Lessendrum" is that is the father of William Bisset who > married Margaret Lamb. I am sure that many people on this list will have > seen the Bisset Family Tree drawn up in 1851 by the Bissets who ended up > at Artannes, Inverurie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. The "2nd Son of > Lessendrum" is the name that heads this tree, however I've never seen any > link to say who that actually was and indeed who his brother the 1st son > was. As this would tie up a very large branch of Bissets to the Lessendrum > tree. > > Regards, > > -- > Alexander Bisset > IT Administrator > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand > binary and those who don't. > >>>> On 03/07/2008 at 15:17, in message >>>> <001101c8dd17$9c8be7e0$6400a8c0@MANUEL>, "pmanuel" >>>> <pmanuel@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hello Alexander, > > Where no proof exists there is no connection, because so many have tried > to > form a connection, but have failed to find the proof. > > You may speculate, but "line of descent" and "family" are two different > things. > > For proof of what I have said, look at the British Monarchy and Queen > Victoria's children and their children's children etc, most of whom did > not > become the Monarch and are no where to be found in today's direct line, or > able to claim the Throne. Most do not even have titles, but are > nevertheless still "family" (proven). > > I suppose you could say we are all related to each other, if you go back > to > Adam. Is that incestuous? by definition - No. > > Why are so many Bissets so keen on having a Lessendrum connection? It > was > a very old Manor House of little or no significance other than the seat of > a > large land holder. What Title did the original occupant have? A > Knight > ? or a Baron? > > Peter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This message has been checked by Dionach for all known viruses using > MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit > http://www.dionach.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > BISSETT-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > "pmanuel" <pmanuel@bigpond.com> 2008-07-04T07:54:14-06:00